E54 Emotions & Advocacy with Kyira Wackett
Our emotions play such a huge role in our everyday lives, relationships, and even the effectiveness of our advocacy for our children.
How do our emotions affect our effectiveness as a parent advocate for our children? Today, we are diving into this question and so much more! Kyira Wackett, licensed mental health therapist, of Adversity Rising is joining us today to give us some great insight into emotional barriers and how to move past the emotions to be the best parent advocates we can be.
In this episode, Kyria is shedding some light on the depth of our emotions and how to unpack those emotions so they are no longer barriers for advocating for your child to get the best services possible. She is sharing an important look at the feelings of guilt, shame, and unfairness that can come up when you have a child with a disability, the 3 responses shame can bring up, how perfectionism can seem like a strategy when trying to advocate for other’s needs, what being assertive and collaborative looks like, and identify wants versus needs and focusing advocacy on the needs. This episode is loaded with valuable information both for growing in relationships and advocacy!
Are you unsure where to start with the IEP process? Check out my FREE Parent IEP Starter Pack to learn about eligibility, the IEP process and team members, IEP paperwork, and a resource list to help you!
Be sure to join my Facebook group, The Parent IEP Lab Insiders, to connect with other parents and be part of an amazing, supportive group! And, as always, if you found this episode helpful and informative, please LIKE & SHARE to help other parents be the best advocates they can for their child!
In this episode, we cover:
- The feelings of unfairness, shame, or guilt that parents and caregivers of children with disabilities may have
- The 3 responses shame can bring up and how these responses look in communication
- How perfectionism can end up being a strategy or “war tactic” when trying to get your child the attention they deserve
- What it looks like to be assertive and collaborative within the system
- Why forgiveness is important to regaining energy and moving forward when feeling pain, anger, and lack of trust
- The difference between wants and needs and how to make sure the needs are being met
- How to allow yourself to feel and process pain, anger, and shame to move on to acceptance and look at what your child needs to thrive
Connect with Beth:
Related Podcast Episodes:
- #40 - [Parent Spotlight] Emotions and IEP Prep with Victoria from A Contagious Smile
- #34 – 3 reasons why IEP meetings are stressful (and what to do about it!)
- #25 – Problem Solving Options for When You Want to Feel Heard (small issue: part 1)
- #22 – Parents Set the Tone for the IEP-No, Really!!
Beth 0:00
Oh emotions. As parents, we don’t even realize the depth of our emotions and how they affect our kids, our family and our effectiveness as a parent advocate. So today I have Kyira Wackett of adversity rising, a licensed mental health therapist on the show to help us understand what those emotional barriers are, and how to start moving past those emotions. So that we can become the most effective parent advocates through this IEP system that we possibly can stay tuned.
You are listening to the parent IEP lab, the podcast that helps you get an effective IEP plan for your child so that you can get them supported and learning in school. I’m Beth Liesenfeld, your host, an occupational therapist who started to notice trends in parents who got effective IEP s for their kids. My mission is to help you turn insider knowledge of the system and school culture into effective parent advocacy for your child.
When I asked parents what resources they found helpful, the book by Wrights Law entitled From Emotions to Advocacy is one of the ones that comes up over and over as being really helpful for parents to realize their emotions and be able to work through them to be a more confident parent advocate. This is such an important topic because I see in meetings, the calmer and more in tune in control parents emotionally are the ones that have a clearer head. And they can have a grounded conversation with the IEP team even when there’s conflict.
So today’s mission is to really start unpacking those emotions that might be happening, that are creating a barrier in effective parent advocacy for you. And to name them, start breaking them apart and start talking about what are the steps to move forward. So they don’t continue to be a barrier in you advocating for your child getting a great IEP. Now, I just wanted to know that this episode, we’re talking about guilt and shame, and situations where parents might feel hopeless or extremely frustrated. And it might bring some really strong emotions up for you while you’re listening. So while this is one of, I think, the most important things that I could possibly put on the podcast, I do want you to be aware of this so that you can choose when and how you listen to this episode. So if you don’t want your kids to hear about these strong emotions, then maybe you want to listen to this at a different time when you’re able to put in some headphones or be in a private space so that you can listen and process through these more sensitive topics on your own. So I am thrilled to have Kyira on and to talk about this. Her conversation and her candidness when she talks about these strong emotions is really, really amazing and really helpful. So I am super excited to hear what you think, in the Facebook group after you listen to this episode. Without further ado, let’s get into the interview.
Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I’m so excited to talk with Kyira Wackett, from adversity rising today. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you. I’m so excited to be here. Yeah. So will we just start out just tell us a little bit about what you’re an expert in and how you got to be an expert in your field.
Unknown Speaker 3:32
Yeah, well, so I am a licensed mental health therapist. And my training and specialization is in eating disorders, anxiety disorders and trauma. And as I’ve gone through my master’s program, kind of in my practice, the day to day kind of learning that comes from being with patients in the therapy room, but also all the other work I do and speaking and trainings, I really now route myself in shame and really being more ofa shame, responder, a shame processor, a shame journey guide, a shame addict and on my own personal journey. And so I’m sure we’ll talk about this more as we go. But really, shame is this fear of connection and belonging and it drives so much of our anxiety so much of our, the rules, the fears, the beliefs that we have about ourselves. And so as I got deeper into my work, I kind of learned that pretty much all of these specializations are routed back into helping somebody process through and understand the source, the role and the impact of their shame.
Beth 4:46
So interesting, and I think we originally talked when I contacted you or we started chatting and found each other. I was really looking for somebody who could help with emotion surrounding IEP meetings because they’reare so much pressure on parents when they show up to those IEP meetings, and there’s all all different kinds of emotions, there’s like the pressure to perform and to know things.
And then there’s like the whole dealing with your kid with a disability stuff and how I think a lot of parents probably feel like it’s unfair, it’s unfair that they feel like they have to learn all of this stuff. And other parents don’t, that they have to fight so hard for their kid just to get an equal education to everybody else. And I think we are talking about that fairness, unfairness part, can you speak a little bit about how we can deal with those kinds of emotions?
Unknown Speaker 5:47
Yeah, I mean, I think, obviously, it’s such a big topic and questions. So kind of walking back, before the parents or the caregivers or even walking into the room, you know, when your child is born, or when you, you know, become their parents or caregivers, however, somebody becomes a parent or a caregiver, there is this like learning process of what does it mean to be a parent, regardless of how many children are in your life, you are learning how to be a caregiver for this individual. So there’s that piece which no matter what somebody’s needs, and abilities are, it’s already kind of a shame indoctrinate her because you feel like there’s this thing that you’re never doing well, you’re never doing right, and you’re somehow going to let them down. And part of that is because that’s their job to make us feel like we’re always the ones screwing up, because that’s what kids do, in so many ways. But the layer also of like, you’re somehow supposed to know how to raise a human when you’re still figuring out what it means to be you.
Unknown Speaker 6:50
Now layer on top of this, some aspects of their abilities, some aspects of their personality, you know, we’re typically looking at not only ability status, but the effect on social skills and traits and all of these other components that come along with it. we internalize such a deeper element of shame of, you know, at some point, there’s this processing of like, Did I screw up? Did I do something if somebody birthed their child or have their child through a birthing process? It’s this wonder of what happened during the pregnancy? What happened during the early months, if there’s something about, you know, if you’re adopting a child or bringing a child into your family, later on, there’s a question of like, trauma, and what role did you play? And did you miss something. And so I think there’s that piece, there’s the piece of wanting your kid to have equal opportunity in a world that is not designed for them to have equal opportunity. And we could spend hours talking about the layering, then of not just a child that needs an IEP, but a child with any other aspects of their identity, you know, a non white child in a school district, a child that doesn’t identify gender, or like all of these different elements. And so I think parents are coming in with just like, so many cards that feel like they’re stacked against them. And that overwhelm is like the best activator for their shame. Because shame basically comes in and is like, well do this, do this, do this, do this, and everything will be fine. But you don’t even know where to get your footing.
Unknown Speaker 8:20
So you come into this room, and you go, I know what I need. But I feel like I’m armed myself with defense that you don’t even feel like you have the opportunity to come in and play on the same team. You just feel like you’re there against the world, because that’s how shame and honestly, our culture has made people feel like you’re in this alone, people can’t be bothered, this is on you. And if you can’t figure it out, you’re somehow failing. So no, I’m not answering your question yet. But I think that’s kind of the foundation point to lay. I’m kind of like starting there just thinking. So what’s even coming up in this space for them? For sure.
Beth 8:55
Yeah, and I think most parents that I see from the school team perspective, they’re, they’re either in that camp where you said, defensive, or they’re in that camp, where you just said, people can’t be bothered. So it’s like you either come in really strong thinking you’re going to have to fight for your kid and nobody’s going to understand you. Or you come in, in the other camp where anything that the school offers you is good because you feel like you’re lesser than other people maybe or like you just have to take what they give you because I don’t even know how to explain that part. But there seem to be like two camps where parents either come in like really, really strong and defensive and feeling like they have to fight or almost like too docile and they don’t want to ask for anything more than what the school is providing because they’re just afraid that they’re going to disrupt that relationship with the school team too.
Unknown Speaker 9:55
Well, I think so with when somebody Yeah, and when somebody experiences shame. So again, if we go back to like in these moments, you’re feeling this, like this threat to connection and belonging for you, but more so for your child. So your shame is going to be at an all time alert, regardless of how much you’ve processed work through this how many times you’ve been in the room, you’re still going to feel it because there feels like there’s this threat to your human that you’re taking care of. And so and then again, how it translates back to you and your own stuff.
Unknown Speaker 10:23
Shame kicks up three responses. So it’s kind of like when we feel fear, when fight flight or freeze, there’s three defense tactics that our body does in those moments. So the first is to become permissive and passive. So we’ll just kind of silence ourselves will take everything we will play the role of the people, please are, you are no, that’s a great idea like this is good, this is good playing into it, because then you’re going to get some form of connection to kind of, again, alleviate shame. In the short run. The second one is to just become completely detached and avoidant, you’re not even thinking about this, sometimes I would assume some parents and caregivers went through this even early on of like, we don’t need that this isn’t a thing, like you can’t even touch it. Or when you go into the space, you’re just so detached. And that’s kind of a feeling of like, why put any hope into something getting better. Instead of just being like, well, it’s never gonna get better, this is what it is, and you kind of like lose that, I would assume that’s not the first line of defense. For a lot of parents, it’s probably one that comes up down the road when they are fatigued. Either option one, or option three is kind of the other one you’re describing, which is we come in fighting shame, with shame.
Unknown Speaker 11:33
So we end up trying to make people feel bad in a way we get angry, we are on the attack as a means to try to get them down to the place that we feel to show up. I do this even in little ways of something doesn’t go well at a company and then I’m a complete jerk to the people I’m talking to. And when I step back, like that’s not in my value system, I don’t want to do that. But that is a defense that comes out of feeling like you’ve wronged me, You’ve hurt me, why didn’t you see me as somebody that was worth, you know, getting their order, right or whatever. And it sounds silly when you say it out loud. But it’s, it’s not in the moment. And so I think what you’re describing is people that come in and likely are taking option one or option three, because at the root, it’s this feeling of like, I’m not equipped to be here. And I and my family are always going to be seen as different. And I’m never going to be in the in group no matter what’s offered. And so either you take it, or you feel like if it’s not this way, then it’s failing, which is in a weird way. Just sort of a self fulfilling prophecy of shame on either side, because they aren’t then going to get exactly what they need. Because you’re too busy. They’re fighting for this, like very specific thing that’s not going to be met. So then you feel othered or you’re taking whatever is being given, which is still not going to be getting you what you need. And on both sides, you just leave feeling worse.
Beth 12:48
Exactly that Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 12:54
Yeah.
Beth 12:55
Can we talk a little bit about a lot of parents think that they have to advocate like perfectly, like they have to know all the law and just be so perfect when they come to that table. And some think that, you know, I have to bring doughnuts for the team, and I have to like be on their good side. And I have to do this perfectly, or else my kid’s gonna suffer? Can we talk about like, perfectionism when it comes to something so social and interpersonal, that it’s rarely perfect?
Unknown Speaker 13:26
Yeah. And I do think this goes back to your question. I didn’t even answer really the beginning of like, what do we do in these settings, because I think the response again, is that it’s a way of, it’s like, it’s very psychological. We’re playing a game.
Unknown Speaker 13:43
So if I bring in, when we had this experience happened, my grandma is newly in, she’s on hospice, which, you know, in our case means we don’t know how long she has. But we know that we’re not going to be doing any more interventions for her and 95. And it’s a really similar experience, because you’re trying to work through she has a lot of needs, about what it looks like to live her life and have the dignity that she deserves, and to get the life that she deserves for her remaining time. And so you’re working with people on all levels of support, whether it’s the CNAs that are working with her day to day the leads, like all these pieces, and my whole family’s trying to navigate Well, things aren’t happening the way that they need to, you know, when did she last get a shower? When is this happening? Is she being moved? Is she walking like I think it’s easier for people if she’s just like laying in her bed all day long, and that’s no life for anybody. So there’s a lot of this back and forth. And I take the approach of laying down what is deserved and what is needed and then making sure that those are non negotiable and then having a conversation about what’s wanted and I have to do a lot of work there but this is a skill set I’ve developed. My aunt takes the approach of she’s very similar to the approach you just described. She brings in the candy she brings in the donut she sweetening people up. She wants to make sure that they see her as being deserving and my grandma of being deserving of being treated that way.
Unknown Speaker 15:01
But that is a response of believing that they’re not going to take that seriously or see her see my grandma’s deserving unless we do that unless we become the favorite one. And I think what you’re describing is it doesn’t feel like perfectionism for people as much as it feels like it’s the war tactic. It’s the way to get somebody to pay attention to listen to notice you.
Unknown Speaker 15:24
And so what we’re doing is, we’re charging ourselves with this like immense responsibility to get somebody to pay attention. And this is a problem across the board, because again, their child deserves that attention. From the beginning, every child deserves to be given what they need to survive and thrive in a school setting to get what they need to be able to exist in the world. However, they are meant to exist in the world.
Unknown Speaker 15:50
And one of the things I think we forget, I mean, again, there’s a crossover between the healthcare system and the school system. These are incredibly overburdened, overtax systems, that the people that they’re coming into interact with. Oftentimes, they’re not the ones with the pole with the Yes, and the no power with the ability to change policy. They’re not the ones doing the day to day necessarily, they’re trying to do what they can, but they’re overwhelmed with all of the asks and all of the red tape that they have to cross over. And there’s, there’s so many dominoes and systems. And even when you get to the right person, they’re so burnt out and overwhelmed that they aren’t responding either. And so you’re you’re interacting with teams and with people that are already feeling their own shame and overwhelm. So it just feels like Well, where does the buck stop? Then? Where do we change the system? Where do we change the policies, because at the end of the day, my kid still needs these things and deserves these things. And I don’t want to be made to feel like they can’t, because you all don’t have a handle on your system and how to function more properly. Because the people that are suffering, again, are my kid and the next families, kids and things like that.
Unknown Speaker 16:54
So that I think it’s us trying to absorb a responsibility as the parent for things that aren’t ours, but also having to step back and recognizing that we’re interacting with a system that isn’t designed to support the kids necessarily, but also isn’t designed to support the teachers and the caregivers and the providers in the school settings. And so on a large scale, we need to shift in the system.
Unknown Speaker 17:17
And the small scale, I think we need to get back to what does it look like to be assertive, and to be collaborative working within systems like this and knowing where not to accept the kind of paths off and the BS answer. And also knowing again, like where do you really want to be spending your energy and sometimes coming in armed with that, or doing these perfect things. And when it doesn’t work out because it wasn’t going to to begin with, then you internalize it that you’ve effed up, you’ve made the mistake, you’ve screwed up in some way. So then it deepens your shame, rather than pausing and saying, that might be a system thing that I’m still not okay with, I’m still going to work to change. And that’s not about my kid, that’s not about me. And I’m not going to absorb that into the narrative that I already have that feels like the cards are stacked against me.
Beth 18:05
Brilliant. So I was I was chatting with somebody the other day who was asking for information. And she was saying, Hey, how can I request records to see if the school has been reimbursed for Medicaid for my child, there’s a whole other system where schools can apply to get reimbursed for the therapy services through their Medicaid and they have to have parent permission for that. And this particular parent hadn’t given permission, but was still wanting to request those records to see if they had gone behind her back and, and charged for the services charge Medicaid for the services. And, you know, I found the link that she needed, provided the link but also just kind of asked, like, why why do you want to request this? And I had a feeling that it was a trust issue. And it absolutely was and so yeah, when we’re let’s shift to trying to be a little bit solution focused for somebody in that position where there is absolutely no trust left between the parent and the school. How would a person in that situation go about changing that narrative and, and moving past some of that shame and rebuilding that relationship with the school? Because that seems like she’s probably feeling pretty overwhelmed, pretty desperate and pretty paranoid against the school for whatever they’ve done in the past to her.
Unknown Speaker 19:30
Yeah, I mean, I think there’s a few different points even there to have noticing, you know, how do we validate that individual’s pain because obviously, they’re feeling pain, but then to I think, having some honest conversations around. Okay, so let’s walk through how the trust was eroded for you. And then also where does forgiveness need to come into play from your side? Because holding on to the anger holding on to the pain holding on to the resentment if something wasn’t working well or didn’t happen the way you wanted, or whatever the case may be, is only inevitablygonna hurt you and your family, not because of retaliation, but because of you have a finite amount of energy and time. And look how much energy is being invested into trying to now figure out this answer about Medicaid, which, at the end of the day, the pushback I would have is the people that are providing the services, and the schools that are trying to provide them well, you know, schools are underfunded, we know that there’s an issue in so many ways. And we know that the people trying to provide this care are likely not getting paid very much to be able to do these things. And like this is a way to be able to make sure that they can pay the therapists that people coming in to do some of this work.
Unknown Speaker 20:37
So what would be bad about that, and what you know, even dialing it backward,what was the reason to not want to get permission in the first place. And because a lot of that a lot of that hesitancy, a lot of that resistance is likely rooted in and having pain and not having forgiven the school and not having forgiven an individual. And now by holding on to that, you’re trying to punish them, and then like, catch them doing something wrong, instead of seeing them as being a part of the team you’re working with.
Unknown Speaker 21:06
So then the decision you either needs to be, you’re at a point where you can’t work with them anymore, then you need to look at switching schools are figuring that out, or this is the relationship that you’re in. And you have to take responsibility for what is yours to do and to let go of, and that sounds so hard to swallow. When you’re thinking like, again, I’m coming from behind in every interaction, but part of that is working to let go of that belief system and feeling like most people aren’t trying to make your life harder. They’re not trying to make things worse for you. They’re not trying to let you down. They’re trying to function in their own systems and worlds, and sometimes you are collateral damage.
Unknown Speaker 21:47
So you have to pause and say, Whatever happened that eroded that trust, whatever happened, where this parent was thinking, you know, my kids not getting everything that they need, or that they want? Where are you sometimes holding on to, again, if we go back to the standards, the defenses where you may be sometimes holding on to something? Or have you written a narrative that is so deep now about the wound and the being let down and the being not seen? And how is that serving you and your child still hold them accountable? Like the school, the individual, I mean, I think sometimes we can use the school and then we just like lump everybody under there. But the individuals that may be eroded the trust, we need to start there and think about what does that healing process look like? And what does accountability look like?
Unknown Speaker 22:28
And there’s this separation, then of there’s still justice, meaning like, what is the accountability piece, what is the action, what is the response to somebody not doing or doing something. But then the other side is the forgiveness piece and realizing that you holding on to emotions that lead you to feeling that pain and anger so that you’re acting from places of pain and anger, are not going to serve you, they’re not going to repair anything. And even if you moved on to a different school, they are going to leave you taxed from an energy burden from a time burden because you’re putting energy into a place for retribution, instead of really thinking about collaboration and constructive movement forward.
Beth 23:09
Yeah, and the interesting thing about making that internal change actually have a really cool story, there was a parent that was, you know, requesting all kinds of like facilitation for IEP meetings and really heated conversation between the case manager, which in this case was the special education teacher, and her and we had some really tense meetings with her. And then the next year,we came into that IEP meeting. And it was like the best IEP meeting ever. And I think I’m just telling the story, because I think also when we, when we know that our reputation precedes us. And we know that the school knows that I’m going to hold them accountable. And then I’m a fighter, and that they need to bring admin to this meeting with me because they know me.
This parent, like changed her approach. And nobody thought anything of it. They were like, that was great. That was so much better than we expected. But I feel like we don’t have to hang on to that identity that we’re a fighter, if we want to change that. Does that make sense? When we talk about like the process of change in that manner?
Unknown Speaker 24:24
Yeah, I mean, I think that there’s a difference to have like, being on defense is different from being an advocate. And I think in that setting of like, fighter is such a broad term that if you’re in fight or flight mode all the time and you’re in that state of defense, and you’re in that state of you start to make assumptions that everything anybody says is going to be trying to talk you out of something trying to like sidestep a conversation like everything is going to be filtered differently. But there is still the ability to be a fighter in the sense of knowing whatalign of responsibility is I do think I mentioned this earlier, but the differentiation between needs and wants.
Unknown Speaker 25:05
And so for somebody before they go into their meeting to know what are, what are the everything that I need, and my family needs, my child needs, whatever it is, before I leave this meeting. And then having to be honest, sometimes that there are wants, there are wants that come along with trying to get your child everything that they aren’t going to get, because their life isn’t fair. And their needs look different. I couldn’t imagine having to hold that space, I couldn’t imagine having to accept that and knowing when to accept it and when not to accept it is tricky, because again, it’s knowing that sometimes no matter what the school could do, even if they said yes to everything, you’re still going to exist in a state of saying, Well, some things are unfair.
Unknown Speaker 25:49
And so I think I think sometimes the fighter is a defense of being like, if there’s always some way that someone’s letting us down, if there’s always something more to be trying to do, if there’s always some form of like fight that’s left in us, it busies our brain in a way that we don’t have to sit with the realization to have, even if all those things are met, my child’s life is so unfair, and not for them, because your child doesn’t know any life other than the one that they’re leading.
Unknown Speaker 26:16
But it’s your storyline of what you had hoped and what you would want it for for your child and what you were expecting and what everybody is, you know, made to believe that parenthood or caregiving is going to be like, and so their life is only the life they know. And you’re the one that has to kind of say, this isn’t the life that I knew for them or drum for them or wanted for them. And that’s a really hard thing to want to admit out loud and to acknowledge. Even if you got everything, it’s still really painful, because you recognize that your kids, their world is going to be different from what you had hoped it was going to be. And I think once we can let that go. I mean, I see this with parents who have kids with eating disorders, trauma, anxiety disorders, when I’m working with them, sometimes it’s realizing that like,this is going to be their life and their life is always going to look a little bit different than what somebody else’s life will be. And sometimes you holding on to it needing to be this and we need treatment this way, we need this to happen, we need everybody to be doing this, you are making that a bigger part of their identity, not consciously. But like sometimes it would be okay, if they didn’t have certain things. Or if life looked a little bit different, there’s a lot that it wouldn’t.
Unknown Speaker 27:29
And again, like you’re the expert more on the IEP, so you can help people differentiate that are recognizing that there are some ways that we need to kind of lessen that fight response so that we can allow our kids to not absorb this feeling of tension. And like there is something so wrong or broken or deficit driven about me. But more there’s something that requires me to communicate my needs differently and get my needs met differently. And my parents or my caregiver is going to do that for me now and down the road, I’m going to learn how to do that for myself. But that doesn’t mean that I’m broken, or, you know, whatever that might be, too. It just means that how I communicate in the world looks different.
Unknown Speaker 28:08
That’s amazing. So I know, probably somebody listening to this, in order to really define needs and wants, that takes a lot of introspection, and maybe even some like one on one kind of counseling to figure that out. But is there kind of a broad approach that you take to helping people figure out the difference between their needs and wants and outlining those a little bit?
Unknown Speaker 28:37
Yeah, I think before people even get there, there’s this kind of processing. So you’ve probably have this conversation with the people you work with. But part of this work involves grief and involves again, so processing through their shame is really about processing through and grieving some of what was taken from them, even what we just said of the life they thought their child would have versus the life their child would have and having to grieve reality versus hope.
Unknown Speaker 29:04
And, you know, some of the grief is things like when somebody hurts you by not showing up for your child or when something happens in an IEP meeting. The part of that grieving then is feeling all the anger, all the pain, all that sort of righteousness that comes up in us all of that has to be felt. And then sort of sifted through to decide what role does it play in the long term? And how does it work for and against us? Because sometimes, again, I think that defense state is we’re leading from such an emotion base, whether that is your shame, whether that is your pain and the grief, whether it’s that righteous place of anger, and that I’ve always got to be a fighter. And likely those those parents and caregivers have been that way in other settings, not just with their child, but this is kind of who they’ve had to be in different contexts. So I think you backup first you have to say, how do I take and make space to feel all the feelings that I have about this and not let them go. But not let them drive the bus.
Unknown Speaker 30:04
And so I think it really is backing up long enough to feel them. And that requires some honest conversations, I think with people, because when they’re in this process, and they’re navigating all these things, one of the really common outcomes is like, well, I don’t have enough time, and I’ve got this, this and this, and here’s my to do list, I’ve got all this stuff. And here are all the ways that I can’t do that. And the reality is, even when you cross off everything on your list, the list is still there, the next day, you are always going to have things you need to do.
Unknown Speaker 30:31
So it’s about taking control and onus of, I’m going to need to learn to be okay when some of those things aren’t done, and to let things that feel really big, go so that I can learn that they’re not as big as they felt in my brain. Once you’ve processed through that, once you’ve been angry at the world at you know how whatever belief system someone has, whether it’s a religious component, being angry at God, or God’s being, you know, angry at genetics and science, whatever it is, but being angry about all these things, being sad, being helpless, helpless, despair, all of those feelings, and then I think you come out of it. And then there’s this phase of radical acceptance of what’s in my control, and what’s not?
Unknown Speaker 31:14
What is the world that I can create with the reality in front of us? And so knowing again, who what’s the beauty of my child? What are all of the things that we are working to unlock that beauty in the school setting, versus looking to get them to a place of being equal, get everything out, because that, again, puts us back to that place of the fight? So instead, what we’re saying is, how do I really enhance the beauty and the wonder for my kid, if we can think from that way, if we can think from the space of with my two year old when I’m communicating to other people, there are ways that I’ve learned can help her thrive in an emotional setting. That doesn’t mean necessarily that you know, I’m going to be in a position having IEP meetings or understanding the stress there. But I know that there are things that don’t work and don’t help. And if I come in being like, well, you’re doing this wrong, and this is the thing, and why isn’t this happening? That’s very different from saying, I’ve been able to learn, this is how I help her live in to her beauty as an emotional explore whatever it is.
Unknown Speaker 32:15
And so coming in instead saying, I am ultimately the expert on what does that for my child? Because I get to spend the time with them. And I’ve invested that time in them. And how do I share that and provide an opportunity for people in the space to do those things for them. And that’s where you then once you get to that place? Again, I’m feeling all the feelings, then moving through this phase of radical acceptance of what is our life? And how do I see it as as worthy and beautiful and lovely, even though it looks different. So you let go of that are coming from behind and you say we’re coming from exactly the place we are? And then these are the supports and the systems, I need to help us enhance that. And then the conversation becomes what do they need to thrive? And then what are the things I’d want to see happen if it’s possible, the helpful part when you go to so in need I always tell people is, this is the non negotiable, my kid needs this, this has to happen.
Unknown Speaker 33:10
You know, again, I’ll go back and compare it to the work with my grandma. But my grandma needs to be taken out of bed and brought into the bathroom every so many hours, that is a basic human need. But in particular, knowing how she feels sensations in her body and how she moves through things she needs that she’s not going to be able to remember those things, we also had to make it so she gets there’s a prescription, literally an order for every eight hours or every six hours to bring her a full glass of water to make sure that she is having regular water brought in and she’s drinking that water. That’s not technically medication. I mean, we could argue obviously it is water can be medicine in some ways. But the idea of needing a prescription for that that’s a non negotiable to me, because I know that otherwise, she’s not going to get that basic need that. But the want for me is that they get her out and they’re interacting, you know, at the tables with other people the want for me is that they’re offering her different options with foods sometimes. And if she’s not eating something, knowing we’ve stocked her fridge with stuff, being able to offer her something else.
Unknown Speaker 34:13
The reason I can decipher that’s a want is because we have family thankfully around that can help do that sometimes. So if their staff are overwhelmed and burdened, and they aren’t saying well here, you’ve got this in your freezer, let me heat this up. Let’s do this. On a day, they’re not doing that. They’re not jeopardizing her basic needs and safety. There’s just a couple of things that I would love to have that for that day, I can allow that to be the case, I can still bring it up and still say this is something we’d want to see happen. This is something I’d like to work out how do we make that a part of the system? But then we become a collaborative part of it of saying how do we help you be able to do that? How can I support you and being able to do that in the classroom? Switching it back now to the meetings How can I support you and being able to do X, Y and Z for my kid? What do you need for me? What do you need?
Unknown Speaker 35:00
need from them to be able to do these things to make sure that this stuff happens because this can’t be negotiable in the room. And I understand your burden, I understand there’s this, I can’t allow that to be the past that makes it so these things don’t happen. So what do you need to make that happen? And then again, we’re going back to accountability. But we’re also going back to collaboration. So you have a really big process. I know, it’s probably pretty overwhelming as people like, wait a minute, to me to feel all these feelings. I’ve been trying to stuff long enough to like, just move through my day.
Unknown Speaker 35:30
So I’m gonna feel all of that like put things on pause and then come back when I take it off, pause and have the overwhelm there, and then start to do this radical acceptance and then make this list. Which is why I think it doesn’t happen in a day. It doesn’t happen in a month, but it is an iterative process of just trying to check in with what space do my emotions need right now.
Unknown Speaker 35:50
So that I can then allow them to move through me rather than control me? And how do I see the world is not out to get me? How do I see the world as trying? And sometimes failing flailing and flopping? Because, again, whether it’s the system level we want to talk about, or the individual people are going to screw up. But how do we not allow that to feel so personal, that the pain then disrupts our ability to see their humanity and then work with them to provide systems for our children?
Unknown Speaker 36:20
I think that’s fantastic. So if if a parent listening to this is interested in working more closely with you, and kind of going through this process, can you let them know how to find you? Online?
Unknown Speaker 36:36
Yeah, absolutely. So my website is just adversity, rising all together. So adversity rising.com, they can go there, you can find links to contact me, you can join my email list. If you’re just wanting to see more of what I do. Check out some of the work that I do. I have pages on my website, like read, watch, listen. So depending on people’s learning style, under the Listen section, they’ll be able to find this episode too. So they can come back and revisit it as well, in another spot. And so yeah, I’d say that’s the best thing. And I often tell people that it’s a great practice to learn how to reach out and tell somebody why you’re interested in working with them, or what you’re looking for to start building that practice of assertive communication. This is how I feel this is what I want. This is why I want to do it with you. How can you help me get there, because that’s essentially the practice we’re trying to help people get more comfortable doing in the room when they’re walking into these meetings as well.
Unknown Speaker 37:33
That’s amazing. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your expertise. I enjoyed our conversation so much and learn so much. Thank you. Oh, thank you, too.
Beth 37:44
Oh, my goodness, I hope that you got so much value out of listening to this interview, because I even had to listen to it a couple times after we recorded to really unpack some of the emotions that she’s talking about in these situations. I just thought it was such a helpful conversation. And I really hope that you did too. If you want to talk about this episode, if you would like to talk about some emotions, or some strategies that maybe have helped you that you want to share with other parents, I would love to have you in the Facebook group. If you aren’t in the Facebook group yet, you can go to the IEP lab.com/podcast Click on this podcast, show notes or any of the podcast show notes. And you’ll see a graphic there that says Join us in the Facebook group. Just click that image and you’ll be brought to you the link to the group in Facebook. And please answer all of the membership questions when you are there. Because I do check those to make sure that you are a parent or a really, really amazing parent friendly provider to be in that group. Thank you so much for being here and listening. I will see you same time, same place next week. Thanks so much.