Episode 43: School Team isn't Following the IEP? What Parents Can Do! with Vickie and Amanda from Inclusive Education Project
Ever had a school team not follow through on the IEP? Join me along with Vickie & Amanda, SPED attourneys to hear what you can do about it! Shownotes: www.parentfriendlyot.com/episode43
Related Podcast Episodes:
Episode #31: ESY (Kinda Like Summer School but Kinda Not!)
Episode #5: The Parent Role in the IEP
Episode 41: How to Feel Heard and Communicate Who Your Child is with Ease: How to Write a Vision Statement!
Beth [00:00:00] Welcome to the Elevate Your Advocacy podcast. Today, I am thrilled to have on two guests that are experts to answer the very frequent question of what can parents do when the school doesn’t follow through with the IEP as written? Today I have guests on from the Inclusive Education Project, Vicki and Amanda, who are both special education attorneys, and I cannot wait for you to listen all the way to the end, because not only do they talk about what to do right now, if you think the school isn’t following through with the IEP, but also what advocacy efforts you can put into place now or at the next IEP meeting to prevent this from happening the next year after that. Stay tuned. This is a really good one and I’m really excited for you to hear this interview.
Beth (Intro) [00:00:49] Hi there. Welcome to the Elevate Your Advocacy podcast. If you are a parent of a child with a disability in the United States, this is exactly the podcast you’ve been looking for. I’m Beckley’s and followed an occupational therapist who has participated in over 400 IEP meetings for all ages from two and a half to 21 years old. With all the different case managers and parents I’ve worked with, I started to notice some parents had approaches that inspired the school team to rise up and support their child, which resulted in a more effective and supportive IEP plan. After feeling lost and finding support in an online course for my own parenting journey, I got to thinking that there must be a great, easily accessible resource for parents to teach them the amazing strategies I saw working so well in the school setting when I couldn’t find anything even remotely close to what I was looking for, I decided to find a way to share what I’d seen parents do in all of those meetings, but also find out more from experts and other parents. Thus, ParentFriendlyOT was born at ParentFriendlyOT, We believe that every child deserves an informed adult advocate to speak up for them. We also believe that every parent has the capacity to be that advocate. They just need some guidance to know how to do it. Don’t forget to snag your free parent IEP. Get started back at parent friendly outcomes pack. Just one little disclaimer that while I occasionally have lawyers on his guests, I myself am an occupational therapist and not a lawyer. And I don’t give legal advice on the podcast or in any of my online trainings. Now let’s get into today’s episode.
Beth [00:02:23] I am so excited to have both Vicky and Amanda here from the Inclusive Education Project. Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 [00:02:30] Hello. Thank you for having us.
Beth [00:02:32] Of course. So before we just dove into the topic, I really want people to understand what you guys do. And you have a lot of great resources out there, too. So do you want to tell us a little bit about you guys and how you became to be a special education attorneys and what your business is?
Vickie [00:02:49] So we are special education attorneys and we have a nonprofit called the Inclusive Education Project. And our nonprofit really started as a way to educate parents about special education and all the resources that are available within the school district and outside of the school district. And as we were doing presentations and workshops, we realized that our private law firm could actually fall seamlessly under our nonprofit like a legal department. And so we like to provide lo bono services and pro bono services. Pro bono meaning free and low bono we stole years ago from from someone that where we offer flat low rates for series of services ranging from having us be at your IEP meetings for a year, our yearly care maintenance package, all the way to filing complaints, attending mediations and the hearings.
Beth [00:03:53] That’s amazing. I have people ask all the time for those kind of resources. So it’s great to have that!
Amanda [00:03:58] Yeah, yeah. It’s a it’s a crazy world that we live in that a parent needs often to get an attorney to get their child’s educational rights enforced. But unfortunately, just the way the system is right now, you know, the law is primarily on the side of the parents. It is pretty individualized and friendly, but the system itself isn’t as parent friendly. And I went to law school knowing I wanted to do special education law and law school and was one of the fortunate people to have a plan going into law school, execute it and really enjoy working with these families. I came from a background of child development. I have a degree in child development that it was going to be a special ed teacher. And one of the things that we found through our practice and kind of why we shifted to our nonprofit and not just individual legal cases one after another is that we found such a systemic problem in the system as a whole, education as one of them, but then special education primarily and just a lot of stigmas out there and a lot of difficulty with inclusion and the battle for inclusion and the battle for parents to be heard.
Amanda [00:05:13] You know, there is a lot and as I’m sure your listeners know, and you provide information as well, that there’s a lot that parents can do on their own, but they’re not always given the tools or the information to do that on their own. So we kind of the perspective, we try to collaborate as much as we can with school teams. You know, you’re sometimes in the system from 3 to 22, right? That’s a long time. You don’t really have the resources or the time or the energy to be fighting a legal battle every year. So if we can get better communication and have a more collaborative team, we’re going to do that. Certainly there are situations that an attorney does need to come in because we’re not getting along or we’re not being as collaborative or something else needs to change.
Amanda [00:05:56] Our nonprofit as a whole, we really try with our podcast and everything that we’re doing to try to change the conversation from just us and them conversation of us and them of general education versus special education and who deserves the resources or who deserves these, you know, and what not to really thinking about students holistically and looking at them as as individuals, whether they have an IP or not, and really looking at, you know, what is the point of education that’s to get students to be productive citizens, right. To be the best humans that they can be. And that doesn’t just look at reading, writing and arithmetic. There’s more to it than that.
Amanda [00:06:37] And it’s mostly us against the problem. Right. And Amanda had mentioned the legal department is one branch of our nonprofit, and then we have a podcast, just simply the Inclusive Education Project podcast. So we took our presentation workshop kind of mentality on the road, if you will, and publish the podcast. And it drops every Tuesday. And we have a range of guests that come on, as well as these little vignettes that Amanda and I will do, kind of tips and tricks, because it’s always evolving, it’s always changing in terms of the approach. Know the law is very good for us on the side of defending children with special needs. It’s just the application and the implementation.
Beth [00:07:23] Yes, I absolutely love that. And we talk a lot on my podcast and my courses as well that the system is broken, like this system was made in 1804. Do you live like that? No. Right. So the IEP is kind of a patch, which, if it is implemented correctly, it’s actually quite amazing. But the percentage of times that it’s actually implemented correctly is is not very high. So that actually gets us into our topic for today because I get a lot of questions about implementation of that IEP. And I’m a real estate agent on the side and I was an OT first and then became real estate agent for the supplement my income, you know. So over the summers I would do that. When I started starting contracts I was like, Oh, this is just like an IEP, but there’s no that I have found and that’s why you guys are on to tell me and guide me, but doesn’t look like there’s any consequences written in the document of them. They’re following through. So can you kind of talk to us about do you see this in your business a lot? Do you see this come up a lot? Yes. Schools aren’t following through with the IEP.
Amanda [00:08:31] Unfortunately. Yes. You know, when families come to us, sometimes that’s the main concern they have. And certainly in this time of COVID, that has become a big problem. We have state and federal governments saying that there were no waivers during COVID about IEP obligations. So everything that was in the IEP was supposed to be implemented 100% during COVID. And there’s a small like 1% of students that that actually happened. The majority of students didn’t receive 100% of what was in their IEP. The typical time we see something not being implemented is a speech therapist goes on maternity leave and the school doesn’t have another speech therapist to provide services. And during those two or three months that student doesn’t receive speech therapy.
Amanda [00:09:17] School districts do have an obligation to implement the IEP fully. But you’re right, the enforcement is very difficult. The way we explain it all the time is you have someone breaking into your home, you call the police, they come immediately and they act right. They enforce that law of their breaking and entering where the enforcement is not so quick. You can’t call the police and say, my school district is violating the law. You can’t call Department of Ed and say, you know, violating the law. There are systems in place. And the federal law and Congress put out basically regulations on how enforcement of the Individuals Disabilities Education Act is supposed to be done.
Amanda [00:09:57] But they left a lot of leeway up to the states to determine how enforcement would be. So in the state of California, our enforcement goes through the Office of Administrative Hearings, which is a division of a state court. In other states. It’s very different. Some states have it where it’s not even really in courts you present to the board. In some it’s very, very formal, some it’s very informal. And then we have some states that have procedures for state complaints, so not full litigation. So in the state of California, we can file what are called compliance complaints. So when it comes to things like implementation, the speech therapy sessions were not provided or during COVID, we didn’t receive all 3 hours a day of specialized academic instruction. You can file compliance complaints with the State Department of Education to say, my child was forced to receive X amount of services and they didn’t. We want to make up for those services.
Vickie [00:10:57] Yeah, I mean, an even smaller issue. I did air quotes that it still has a lot of weight that a compliance complaint can be brought forth is you requested a copy of your last IEP and they didn’t provide it right. I mean, we are the ones that have to be in charge. We, being the parents of children with special education services, have to be the ones on top of things. It’s really overwhelming because it’s like, I have to file a complaint just to make sure that they start providing me with the IEP. It’s really taxing on a parent on top of everything else.
Vickie [00:11:33] So oftentimes when we get involved, we’re able to try and as Amanda had said, you know, be collaborative, be cooperative, because the way things are implemented, there is teacher discretion in a lot of things. Right. You cannot control how the teacher teaches to an extent. Right. There are programs that they have to teach in a certain way, you know, reading programs and things like that. But you can’t control the teacher. You can’t control another person. Right. And that’s oftentimes the issue that we see is if there’s just miscommunication like there, the district and the parent are not on the same page. So sometimes us just simply being involved in being an outside person coming in, as you probably see to all the time. But that can alleviate some pressure, not all of it. Sometimes times by the time that parents reach out or look for assistance with an attorney, they’re pissed off like they’re mad. Something has happened that has triggered something. So I went off that tangible. Yeah. What Amanda was explaining is, is one procedure. It’s almost black and white. Right? Like, they are just not complying with providing that feature language service because this person was away.
Amanda [00:12:46] And bringing it back to the contract piece. The kind of difference between if you enter into a contract one business to another or one person to another, let’s say, about a loan and someone breaks the contract. How do you enforce that? What are the penalties? It’s a little bit different here because the rights granted to parents and students based on the federal law are based on a state federal agency providing these services. So it’s not the same as entering a contract between a business and a business and a person and a person, because you essentially are entering a contract when you sign consent to the IEP, you are consenting to the contract, but you’re basically consenting to the contract with the government. So your enforcement is not I’m just going to go to state court and say breach of contract. There are procedures that in some ways do make it more complicated. The intention was for parents to be able to enforce, but because school districts hire big law firms and they go to litigation all the time, it’s a lot harder for parents to do it on their own without the support of an attorney.
Amanda [00:13:52] And the other piece to it too, is when you have an IEP and you’re talking about they didn’t implement the IEP. When you’re looking at the hour, four hour like we were supposed to receive 2 hours, we only received one. So we’re missing one. That component of non-implementation is only one piece of that, because not only did that student not receive that one other hour a week, but now they’re falling further and further behind. The progress they should have made isn’t happening. So we don’t just have you didn’t provide me these 2 hours, so you need to give me these 2 hours. But now my child is harmed because of it and they’ve been denied a faith of free, appropriate public education. So we have to kind of look at it from a different lens, which makes it more complicated, right? That if a parent looks at it and says, I’m owed these 40 hours over the course of the school year that you didn’t provide, I’m going to file a state complaint and say I want these hours back. Is that really going to make your child whole? Is that enough? So if you look at it in the simplest terms, it’s not necessarily going to bring your child back whole because you’re just looking at what was missed, not what was the harm from it.
Beth [00:14:59] That absolutely makes sense. Let’s back up a little because you you made a good point that you mentioned data. You’re like they were supposed to have this many hours and they didn’t get it. How can a parent even know if things are being implemented? And I feel like services are a little bit easier to ask for. We’ll talk about that. But also accommodations are so vague sometimes. So yeah, let’s talk about how a parent can even get that information of is this happening?
Vickie [00:15:27] Yes. So one of the ways and, you know, it’s almost a throwaway, but it could be useful as the parent to do observations. So it’s kind of like reality TV after a while, like these people forget that the TV is there something like it slips through, like the mask can only stay on for so long, right?
Vickie [00:15:46] So it would be nice to be able to observe different parts of the day to really see whether or not and I actually have a current client before she became her client, very active. And in her observations of a new class for middle school she had gone to go see so her her child wasn’t in there. But of the two schools that she had seen, there was a marked difference in the teacher because some of those accommodations are shared and they always say it’s embedded in the classroom. Well, how is it embedded? Asking those questions, getting the accommodations even more specific. So they had a very specific accommodation that their child would be doing, like, for example, writing for a few minutes every day, like 1 to 1 that was an accommodation. And so if they’re not getting that work home, then we know that that accommodation isn’t being implemented, right?
Vickie [00:16:35] And so when you’re looking and you’re seeing so for instance, this client, she had gone and she had seen the, you know, the repetition, asking, rephrasing, like one teacher just automatically did it all the time and then the other teacher just didn’t. There were just stark differences in the way. And again, this is kind of teacher, you know, leeway. And we want to give teachers the freedom to be creative. But at the same time, how are you going to accomplish this, especially in a classroom of 12 kids, maybe you have aids. So a couple of the aides are in charge of, you know, four kids over here. And so then they’re making sure that the accommodations are implemented. That’s just one way, you know, creating data and creating specific accommodations that produce data and making sure that the accommodates are specific and then ask their teacher, how, how are you doing this for my child? They are doing it. It’s just in a different way.
Amanda [00:17:30] So that’s why bringing it back, I think the first step is making sure that IEP is as clear as possible. So we always like to say, use your questions. Who, what, where, why, when, when you’re creating an accommodation. If you cannot answer those questions about that accommodation, it’s not clear enough in the IEP. And I know that it seems tedious to do and an app to ask these questions and write all of this. But you know, at the end of the day, if we’re putting in accommodation, I mean, that’s necessary and it’s important.
Amanda [00:18:00] So if we’re not asking these questions and we are not clarifying that we are not doing that accommodation justice, we’re just putting them there just to put something in there. And that’s not appropriate for that kid, and especially kids who have a lot of accommodations. And that’s the bulk of their support, right? These kids that are being maybe mainstreamed in the general education classroom or maybe they are fully included. A lot of times accommodations are the bulk of what’s being provided. Maybe the aid is providing them, maybe the teacher. But we need to know who is providing. We need to know where is it across settings or is it only in speech? Is it that the teacher is providing some of these rephrasing of instructions, but then the aide will do some of the chunking of materials? Or is it vice versa? Do you have an inclusion specialist who’s working on the modified assignment teaching the aid how to implement? So as much as you can be very clear in the IEP first and answer these questions, have it done in writing. And I always say because people will be like, Well, we’re already doing this in the classroom. It’s like, Cool, that’s fine. I don’t tell them, Look, you’re doing it. It’s more or less, Hey, you know what? I know that you’re doing it, but we don’t know what’s going to happen. Some you could get sick and we have a sub next year. We could have another teacher. Parents could move and have to go to a different school. We want to make sure that IEP is written so that anybody can implement it no matter where. So even if they’re doing it and you know when you’re doing a transition IEP, that’s where it’s the most important, right? Because teachers might be doing things that haven’t been written down because maybe you had your annual in December and they started implementing certain things in March because it helped while we didn’t have an IEP.
Amanda [00:19:35] So that’s step one, right? Getting everything very clear. Make sure we know when when it comes to goals, how is your goal being tracked? Does it say they’re going to do this skill 80% of the time and that’s it? Does it say it’s tracked by teacher data? Does it say by work samples? Does it say by observation observations that great and well, but it’s not really enough? We like to say, you know, if we’re going to do observations, there needs to be another measurable tool. So work samples or teacher data. If you have your goals that say that, then the best way to find out if that goal is being implemented, ask for that data after those work samples and you can do that any time, whether they’re the goal area or not. Schools are obligated to keep student work samples and provide it upon parent request. That’s part of the child’s educational record. And then when it comes to like services, school district has an obligation to make sure that these are provided. So they should have service logs.
Amanda [00:20:32] They should have logs that the O.T. filled out every time they’re servicing them. They should be writing more notes than just I was there. Right? You as a parent are concerned that your child is not receiving O.T. or speech to the duration and frequency that they should. In the IEP, you can ask for the service logs, and if they cannot produce a service log, no proof that that service happened. And you can file a complaint to ask for those sort of logs or ask for proof. And if the school district cannot produce them, then that’s a problem.
Amanda [00:21:03] So those are like the best first few ways to find out. And then I guess like the secondary is, is the student making progress or not? If we’re supposed to be working on a skill and they’re making progress, and if the progress is demonstrated by them being able to demonstrate the skill, data, work samples, whatnot, then there’s a high likelihood that they’re getting that service. But if they’re making no progress and there’s no service logs, there’s no data, there’s a likelihood that it’s not happening.
Beth [00:21:29] So because that was a lot of information as we wrap up, I just want to try to summarize and then if you guys have anything else to add, that would be amazing too. So parents can come to the IEP meeting and ask for very specific information, especially in the areas that they’re concerned about. You talked a lot about being really specific on accommodations that make data and then goal areas, make sure that that has a way that it’s being tracked. And then if you have any hesitation or you get any hints or clues that things aren’t being followed through with, that can be shown by if they’re making progress or not. So those progress reports will be able to tell you, and then you can also request that data at any point, because now you know what you’re requesting from being specific in that IEP, right?
Vickie [00:22:17] Absolutely. Absolutely. And just your everyday communication with the teacher. Right. Sometimes you don’t have to. Have a communication log, but that is helpful too. We don’t have to just be hyper focused on behavior. We can talk about, hey, he took his math test another room today. I think it went well. You know, just things like that are super important. And sometimes you get a lot of information at pickup drop off, sometimes not. But you can always follow up with an email, which is important too.
Beth [00:22:45] Fantastic. So where can parents find out more about you online?
Vickie [00:22:50] They can find this at inclusiveeducationproject.org. We have our Instagram handle at Inclusive Education Project and we actually also have Facebook page and we have a page specifically for our podcast. And then the podcast you can listen to anywhere you listen to podcasts. And it’s again, Inclusive Education Project podcast.
Beth [00:23:12] Thank you so much for coming on to the podcast today. I so appreciate your time and I learned a ton, so thank you.
Vickie [00:23:19] Thanks for having us, Beth!
Beth [00:23:20] I hope you loved that interview as much as I did because I learned so much. I have never heard of that way of writing accommodations where they’re going to naturally produce some data attached to it. I never have heard that before, and that was so groundbreaking for me. And I also just loved the concept of them outlining how much we can request as parents, what you can request as parents, and how to go about that while you’re going through this more contentious time.
Beth [00:23:54] I’m so excited that they came on and shared all of that knowledge with you. Now, if you’re wondering how to phrase an accommodation so that it naturally gathers data, or if you’re wondering if a goal is written correctly and it’s going to produce the data that you want to see head on over to the parentfriendlyot.com/podcast And join our Facebook group. There’s a link there right on that podcast page. Go ahead and click that link and then request access to the Facebook group.
Beth [00:24:23] In that group is where we connect with each other and we ask for input to further this transformation that you’re going to have in being a more effective advocate for your child without having to fight. You’re going to be a more prepared parent when you go into those meetings, when you start the next school year, whatever it is that’s coming up. And I would love to help support you. And I’m sure all of the other parents in the group would love to support you as well. So again, go to parentfriendlyot.com/podcast And there’s a graphic that advertises the Facebook group. Go ahead and click on that graphic and you will be linked to the Facebook group and you can request access. Thank you so much for joining us this week and I will see you same time, same place next week. Thank you so much.