E146: Culturally Relevant & Dynamic Assessments with Dr. Tinita Kearney, SLP
No Description
In this episode of The IEP Lab, our phenomenal guest, Dr. Tinita Kearney, a speech language pathologist and PhD, joins our host Beth to dive deep into the importance of culturally relevant and dynamic evaluations. We know that every child is unique and bringing that uniqueness into the assessment process can truly make a difference.So, let’s take a sneak peek at what you can expect from this fantastic episode:🔑 Key 1: Discover how working with a speech pathologist can support your child’s grammar, sentence structure, reading, and writing skills.🔑 Key 2: Learn how manipulating sounds and blending them can significantly improve literacy skills.🔑 Key 3: Explore the benefits of including a speech pathologist in your child’s school team, especially when there’s no reading specialist available.🔑 Key 4: Find out why evaluations should go beyond standardized testing, ensuring a comprehensive understanding of your child’s language and social skills.🔑 Key 5: Uncover the significance of collaborative efforts, observation in various environments, and parent involvement for a truly inclusive assessment.Fun Fact: Did you know that a comprehensive evaluation may include having a conversation with your child and listening closely to their everyday language? It’s amazing how much valuable information can come from a simple conversation!
Register for the FREE Parent Training on October 13th! Https://TheIEPLab.com/FREE
E146: Culturally Relevant Evaluations with Tinita Kearney, SLP, PHD
Samson Q2U Microphone: [00:00:00] If you are looking for a little bit more context and information about how evaluations are done, and specifically what the questions are like, how people like Tanita Kearney, our guest today, is using those evaluations in a more supportive way. To evaluate your kid, to really clearly identify what to ask for as far as goals and accommodations, and of course, services as well, you are in the right place.
So today we are talking about culturally relevant evaluations with Tanita who is a speech language pathologist and a PhD as well. Stick with me because this is going to be a good one.
You are listening to the Parent IEP Lab, the podcast that helps you become an informed parent advocate to get your child supported and learning in school. I’m Beth Liesenfeld, Occupational Therapist, passionate about leveling the IEP information playing field for parent advocates. My mission of the Parent IEP Lab podcast, and also the online courses, workshops, and summit of the IEP Lab, is to break down barriers To being able to advocate with collaboration as [00:01:00] it is the most effective approach to advocacy I saw in over 400 meetings.
On the podcast, you will find insider information from the school side so that you have context for what’s happening and create informed, thoughtful questions of your IEP team to have a clearer voice in your child’s plan. So let’s dive into the topic today of culturally relevant evaluations and find out what we can change and tweak to get the right formula for success for your child to learn and grow in school.
Welcome to the lab.
I am so excited to make sure that you understand that you are invited to our free parent training on the 13th which is this Friday and of course the recording will be provided as well but it’s way better if you show up live because we have an extra bonus if you show up live and we are talking about how to figure out if your IEP or your 504 is working or if it isn’t.
And this is because parent teacher conferences are coming up. Grades are coming out. Progress reports are coming up. And it’s really hard sometimes to know what to advocate [00:02:00] for when things are getting a little sideways. So We’re going to go through three really clear questions in your advocacy so that you know what area you are trying to advocate for.
So don’t miss it. Signup is required. So go to theiuplab. com slash free, F R E E. And that link is also below this podcast in your podcast description as well. I will see you on Friday.
Oh my gosh, Tanita. I am so excited to have you on the podcast. Um, and we’re going to talk all about like evaluations, uh, speech language pathology, a whole lot of very helpful things. But before we dive into it, I would just love for you to introduce yourself and your experience and your relationship with IEPs and
Tinita: 504s.
Sure. I am super excited. Also, Beth. So thank you for having me. Um, hello, everyone. I am Dr. Tanita Kearney. My kiddos colleagues call me Dr. T. So embarrassing. So what I do is, like Beth mentioned, I’m a [00:03:00] speech pathologist. I actually work in schools. I have learned over these past 12 plus years that I work Best in elementary schools with the baby.
So that’s where I’m at now. I do work part time in my local school district, as well as, um, part time with my own business. Um, and so I specialize really in working with children with autism in particular, as well as those from culturally and linguistically diverse backgrounds. So that’s my passion, those two populations.
And so I apply my expertise in. These areas in my consulting business, the final piece, um, where my purpose really is threefold, right? So I’m looking to, um, elevate students language and literacy skills. I’m looking to equip teachers with the knowledge to maximize their own effectiveness, especially in teaching children from those two populations, as well as to, uh, provide, uh, [00:04:00] parents with valuable resources to enhance their children’s skills.
Beyond the classroom. Oh, fantastic.
Samson Q2U Microphone: I love it. And, and what state are you practicing in right now?
Tinita: I am in Maryland. Oh, Maryland. Okay. Maryland. Yes.
Samson Q2U Microphone: Good. Good. Okay. So we’re talking about evaluations today, but I kind of want to back up a second because I’ve, I’ve noticed that most of the people in our audience already have an IEP for their kiddo.
So when we’re talking about evaluations, they might be like, why are we talking about evaluations? I already have an IEP. But we also have a lot of parents that are starting to find this podcast as a resource when they’re starting to go through that evaluation process, or they’re like, does my kid need an IEP?
What do I do next? So can we back up and just talk about the process of the evaluation and also how important. That is to the plan if you actually get an IEP later.
Tinita: Yes. Look, that could take us all day, right? But I know, right? I will. [00:05:00] I will get this. So just really briefly, um, there are two types of evaluations, right?
That initial evaluation. Um, we are the parent or the teacher. Someone has said, listen, we have a suspicion of an issue we want to get our child looked at to see if they qualify for special education services. Um, and that process is pretty straightforward from the time that the parent gives their consent.
It’s about 60 days for that team to come together, meet, decide what areas are going to look to assess. get that done and report on the results. Um, on the other side, if you already have an IEP for your child, then about every three years, not about exactly every three years or before, if you really want to, it’s one thing that parents seem to.
Sometimes not be aware of when I talk with them is that you can literally ask once every year if you want to, not that you need to, but if you did decide I’ve been seeing a great growth or some real [00:06:00] slipping in skills, I want to get my child looked at, but it’s before that three year time frame, you absolutely can ask.
And once you ask, it’s not really a question, right? Once you ask, they are obligated to assess that school team. So that reavow happens at least every three years. Yes. And that’s a time of really great time to dive deeper into what I’m sure we’re going to talk more about what to ask for in that assessment, but let’s just keep it surface level here.
You ask for it, you get it. And then about. 90 days in my experience is how long you have, but it is important to note there really is no, um, federally mandated timeframe according to how long the school team has to complete the reevaluation. Um, most times, like I said, most school teams do have about 90 days.
That’s what the state stipulates, but that can vary between states. Um, and it is critically, critically important. Every evaluation [00:07:00] tells you. It is a guide, the only guide you have, um, to kind of determine how you’re going to get your child from where they are today to where you want them to be maxing out their potential at the end of that school year.
Um, so I can’t go into enough how critical it is, and we’re going to chat more about things you need to be asking for and expecting throughout that process.
Samson Q2U Microphone: Yeah, perfect. And I, I just love that you say that it can be done earlier because I worked in outpatient therapy first and we did evaluations every like six months to a year, depending on what the insurance was.
I think Medicaid made us do it every six months. And then when I came to the school and I was like, Every three years. And then some teams would only want to do a file review every three years. And I’m like, Oh my gosh, you’re going to go six years without any formalized testing. And for some kids, it is appropriate sometimes if it’s not like standardized tests don’t work for them, then yeah, okay, we can do it without that.
But I was just shocked. I was like, there’s [00:08:00] so much growth. In just a kid. And even us as adults, so much growth in six years that I can’t even, I, I can’t even like,
Tinita: I’m with you. I’m so glad you say
Samson Q2U Microphone: that. Okay, perfect. So let’s dive into a little bit more about SLPs. And I know we, and In the show notes, I will both link, um, like if you’re a parent that’s like, Oh my gosh, I need to know more about the evaluation system.
I have another podcast episode. I’ll link that in the show notes. And we have talked about SLPs before, but very like what they do. And so I would love to hear from you just more about what SLPs do, those words and that acronym means, um, and what they look at and treat because I think a lot of people just think it’s if they are missing an S and can’t say an S, but it’s so much more than that.
So I’d love to
Tinita: have you explain that. Sure. I’m going to try not to like bore you guys. So vast and broad, but, uh, we’ll start with the basics, right? What does SLP stand for? [00:09:00] So it stands for speech language pathology or a person pathologist, right? And so, uh, that speech and language gets broken up into a surprisingly large amount of disorders and things of that nature.
So the speech part of it, we’re talking about speech sound disorders, right? Um, so we’re talking about articulation, which is difficulty with actually saying certain speech sounds. So yes, if your kiddo can’t say that S, that fits into that speech articulation portion. But there’s also a phonology piece, um, to that.
So sometimes you’ll find kiddos who Um, are not able to say like the whole last ending sound on words consistently. Um, there are, there are more rule based errors. So for example, um, in English, uh, we, you know, do not drop that last sound. It’s a rule. You say that last sound and if they’re dropping it, they’re violating that rule [00:10:00] because they have a phonological disorder.
If that makes sense, but it’s too strong to the speech portion. Um, we also, though, have outside of articulation and phonology, fluency, um, so the most common fluency disorder you would have heard of is stuttering, um, and so that, you know, generally a fluency disorder is just an interruption in the flow of speaking.
That’s kind of characterized by like a typical rate. So you’re too fast. Usually the rhythm is off, um, disfluency. So for those who stutter, the repeating sounds, for example, are holding on to sounds. So that is that, but there are also other types of fluency disorders that you don’t hear a lot like cluttering and interesting fact. I’m a clutter . So as a speech pathologist, I think I’ve gotten myself to a point where it’s not super evident, but for sure you talk to me long enough and you’ll see [00:11:00] your girl clutter .
Samson Q2U Microphone: So what is, what is cluttering? What would she should be listening for now we’re gonna be listening for it.
Tinita: I know, right?
So cluttering is just, it’s characterized, um, by really rapid or irregular speech rate. I’m a New Yorker also. So that, you know, it’s a natural fast talking combined with the cluttering, which leads to me sometimes kind of what I call chewing up my words. So I, um, you lose some sounds with I’m talking.
So. Fast early on, I was not at all aware that I was talking really fast and folks were not hearing me at the rate that I heard myself speak. And that’s an aspect of it as well. It really results in just a general breakdown in speech clarity or fluency at times, and especially when you throw emotions into it, like excitement.
So when I get excited, I talk so fast. And the words become super unclear. And you let me know if I’m getting to that point, but [00:12:00] I’m pretty good at hearing it myself and then stopping and restating. Okay.
Samson Q2U Microphone: That’s amazing. Well, I love that because I don’t think we’ve talked about this lately, but you know, I I’ve worked with a bunch of school psychologists and I always feel like when we get to know each other, I’m like, Oh.
You have anxiety or you have something that led you to be really interested in your career path. And for me, I’m like, Oh, I was such a sensory kid. Like I’m a sensor kid. I know what that feels like to be a sensory kid. And so it’s so awesome that you’re like, yeah, I have a little bit of this. And I. And I know what that feels like.
And I think that helps us really empathize with our patients, or our clients, or our students, or whatever. Um, and just know how they’re feeling a little bit and be like, yes, you can fix this. Like we can do it together. That’s amazing. We can do it together. Definitely. Okay. So definitely dive into the language component because I think people miss.
The language component, especially when we’re talking about like dyslexia and reading and stuff like that. So let’s dive into that.
Tinita: Sure. [00:13:00] So basically, the language component is broken down into just five main areas, right? That’s phonology, morphology, syntax, semantics, and pragmatics. Um, so phonology we kind of talked about a bit.
Again, just the rules that govern how speech sounds go together in a language. Um, also how they’re pronounced. Right. Those rules that kind of dictate that. Morphology really is just a study of kind of the smallest units of language. So the plural S here, you know, stuff fixes, things like that. Um, and what those things mean.
So when you see that plural S, you know, that means, okay, there’s more than one, right. That’s what morphology deals with. Syntax is the study of just how individual words, um, in their most basic meaningful units are combined to create. sentences, right? So ability to create meaningful sentences. Semantics is, um, the meaning of sentences, right?
In language. So that kind of dealing with the ways in which the language conveys meaning. And then pragmatics [00:14:00] deals with the social piece. So how we’re using language for social purposes. And everything to do with language falls into one or more of those categories. Yeah. And,
Samson Q2U Microphone: and I think a lot of people will notice, and we were just talking about this on a coaching call last night, people are noticing that they have a really hard time getting sentences out and that writing piece.
And then I’m like backing up, like, do they get speech? Do they get language part of speech? Yeah. Because so often we just say speech, but really I’m asking about that language piece because you can see how like that, that intermixes. Do you want to explain that a little bit more?
Tinita: Right. So writing, right. So when you’re thinking about. The actual writing activity that, you know, that’s one thing, but when you’re talking about what the student is writing, the quality of the sentences, all that is language, right? It’s not tied in. It literally is. So it is a reflection, [00:15:00] how they’re putting their sentences together, um, all of that.
That is a reflection of their understanding of how the rules of language are, um, and, and all of that. So if there’s a breakdown in your student’s writing ability, they’re having a difficult time. with the grammar aspect of language, or they’re just not understanding, um, how to get to the sentence structure, the order of words, all that is off, then you absolutely need to work with the speech pathologist because that’s what we deal with, right?
Now, your teacher, of course, helps to address a lot of that, um, but the speech pathologist, we help with reading. As well as writing. That’s all within our scope because that encompasses language. When you’re talking about reading, you’re talking about how you manipulate sounds, right? How we’re combining them, um, how we’re breaking them down, how we blend, how we segment.
That’s going to help you be, uh, increase your literacy skills and read more effectively, right? So we’re certainly involved in both of [00:16:00] those aspects of language. And a lot of times, like you said, the speech pathologist is not your first person that you think of in the school setting, but they certainly should be someone who you include on the team, if nothing else, to consult with and collaborate, since not all schools have like a reading specialist to work on those goals.
But certainly, yep, ties into language for sure.
Samson Q2U Microphone: Beautiful and then and then circling all this back into talking about evaluations. That’s why I want to kind of break it down for what you guys cover first, because then when we circle back to evaluations, which we’re going to do right now, you know, we’ve talked a lot on the show about, you know.
Each one of us has different, um, like you just said in the beginning, like my jam is elementary school and my jam was always like preschool, but I also loved middle schoolers too. I don’t know why. So, you know, every therapist is different. Every district is different. And there’s different education levels, meaning like what [00:17:00] we seek out on our own and what we continue to learn about on our own time.
And so I would love for you to just talk about when we’re asking for a speech language evaluation, what should parents be looking for to make sure that it is comprehensive? Because I feel like that word comprehensive gets thrown around a lot, especially by advocates, and that has no meaning to me. So, so I would love for you to kind of, like, walk us through what we should be looking for for a speech evaluation.
Tinita: Sure, absolutely. Um, and this is going to really apply, um, a lot of it will apply just for speech, but a lot of it actually, I think equally, I’ll, I’ll let you know which portions only apply to speech, but for the most part, it’s going to apply to any person on that team that’s assessing your child.
Beautiful. I love it. So most often, right, Beth, we get to the table, um, as parents or whoever, and we’re talking about evaluations and the team is, you know, talking about, they reviewed records, which is past evaluation results, [00:18:00] past present levels, past progress reports that student and looking at their past grades, right?
And then they get right into results of their standardized testing and they say, yay, we’re done. We’ve comprehensively assessed for a child and we have, we need to move forward. Okay. That is kind of the norm. And that is so far from what should be every parent’s expectation. So what is often missing, um, is okay.
Yep. Review those records. That’s very important to get an idea of, you know, where the child was absolutely important. Um, but what you need to do is number one. Always make sure your child is being observed in their environment. I love to have children be observed, especially for speech and language evaluation.
Um, observe them in their classroom and in a social, a less structured social setting, like recess or lunch or P. E., something where they’re interacting with their peers. Okay? You need at least the one observation to make [00:19:00] sure that is a comprehensive assessment. Number two, if, uh, if it’s not a preschooler, um, but a bit of an older child, even like first reading up, I love to get my students input.
What are your ideas, your thoughts, your perceptions on how you’re talking and speaking? If we’re talking about speech and language, right? What do you think your struggles are? What do you think you’re really good at? Are there any times when you feel like you struggle more? All of that in an age appropriate way, super invaluable and really has had the light bulb come on in so many ways critically that would guide where I kind of lead that challenge of therapy.
Right. That’s two third parents. I’m sure you guys feel this all the time, unless you’re insistent involved, parents get so often left out. There is no phone call.
There’s no questionnaire. There’s no conversation asking, what is your child doing at home? How do you feel this child is kind of working on [00:20:00] this particular area? Um, are there anything, is there anything that they’re doing in the community, um, that might kind of. Speak to what they’re doing in the school system.
I think that because students usually students only qualify. Um, if they have an academic impact, most often people stick right in that lane and I hear that often, but it really is not just about the academic impact, right? You can absolutely accredent, to get fine, but your social connection with your peers is completely off.
That matters, right? Um, so I think because teachers and, um, those of us who work in schools sometimes really focus so much on the academic piece, we miss the importance of asking the parent, what are they doing at home and connecting that with how they’re behaving in school. a part of the comprehensive assessment must also include a language sample. You must [00:21:00] collect a language sample. What does that look like?
That is me sitting down with the child, having a conversation and taking note of all they’re saying. Why? Because I get great insight into. Articulation. How are you saying these speech sounds into your language skills? How are you putting these sentences together? Are there any skills that the teacher didn’t see as a problem, but I can now tease out in talking to you, right?
How is your pragmatic language skills? Are you picking up on social cues that I’m giving you? Are you able to see that I’m not super interested if I pretend not to be just to see and switch the topic on me? Are you able to greet me and say goodbye? Appropriately. Are you able to ask for breaks? There are so many things I can evaluate just by talking to you.
Um, how, you know, all of that, your grammar, sentence formulation, all of that is very evident and must be, must be included in a comprehensive evaluation as well for speech and language [00:22:00] specifically. Absolutely. And that’s,
Samson Q2U Microphone: yeah, I mean, we, we talked.
So one of the main parts of my ultimate parent IEP prep course is making a parent input statement. So yes, I couldn’t agree more that you guys, it gets left out. And especially if you have a, a student who is masking as well, so they’re holding it together during the day. Falling apart at home while you have the data to support that they need more support in school.
And we’ve worked through a lot of those in my coaching programs because that’s just so hard. So yes, that is more of a battle, but I love that you say that because it really should be really good school teams. Yeah. Make sure to take the time and at least give a phone call home to see like, what are your priorities?
What’s happening? So yeah,
Tinita: absolutely should be. And the flip side it could be that in school you are showing all these, you’re not showing all your skills, but at home you’re like, you know, carrying on full blown conversation.
Yeah. And so. If I’m in school working on, you know, using two [00:23:00] and three word phrases, but at home you’re having full dissertations, I’m wasting your time and mine.
Samson Q2U Microphone: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. It’s a, it’s a different issue. It’s a different challenge that we need to work on. Yeah, absolutely.
Tinita: Yeah. I love that. Um, also just as important, the teacher’s input.
Right. We have to go to the teacher and ask because what you tend to observe is not nothing. It’s going to be, you know, a snapshot is never going to give you the full picture. So your observation in that classroom is still not going to tell you all you need to know about that kiddo. You need to talk to that child.
teacher and get their input as well. Super invaluable. And then we get to the actual assessment, right? Um, in terms of with the student one on one in a more formalized way. And a lot of times, not a lot of times, 99. 9 percent of the time outside of myself and like two other clinicians in the district so far I’ve worked with, I’ve only seen standardized assessments used.[00:24:00]
Period. That’s it. You know, we get in a comfort zone and we just pull a test that we hear over and over again. And we’re fine with those results and move on. Um, I have so many times really gotten so frustrated with that process and more recently. kind of diving deeper into this term dynamic assessment, right?
So if you’re a speech pathologist, you’ve heard this in school, but very honestly, Beth, it’s like a very abstract concept, right? It sounds great. It sounds good. How do you actually do it? Not taught. So. And so being so frustrated, seeing standardized assessments that honestly were not at all normed at all using kiddos that look like mine, sound like mine, have cognitive abilities of my students was just too frustrating.
It was not helpful. It was an exercise, not really a tool, right? It was not helping me [00:25:00] form goals in any way, shape or form that applied to my students. And, um, so because I work in a district that is very diverse, I’m all about not wasting our time getting to the core of the matter. And dynamic assessment is the key.
Dynamic assessment really is just an alternative or supplemental approach to formal assessment. Um, and it targets culturally and linguistically diverse students. Um, and it’s also a great way to get an idea of where your kiddos are at. able to maybe interact with you verbally as well. It’s a great way, um, to kind of get an idea of their skill sets as well.
It really just measures a child’s potential to learn as opposed to the child’s knowledge base or life experiences. And that’s how, um, UTRS, Cleland and Pena would define that. And I love the definition. Like I, that’s it right there. So I’ll give you one example. Yeah. [00:26:00] A student. We’ll call him Alan. Okay. So Alan’s parent was really concerned.
He was on the spectrum. Um, but really, you know, not super impacted by it, um, academically, um, and nor really socially, uh, at that point, but there were still some ways we need to support him and trying to tease out how, um, but in using this test to determine if he still needed some language support. Not pragmatic language, but like expressive language support, the mother wanted to look at this area, so I did as well, we looked at it,
So I’m assessing the student. We come across this one question that’s really trying to gauge.
How you get woken up in the morning, right? So the question’s like, you know, what can Sarah use in the morning to wake up to make sure she’s on time for school? And his answer was like a rooster. So he says a rooster in his Derek Lee cracks up after immediately. Okay. So number one, I get that he understands the [00:27:00] question because a rooster wakes you up.
If you live on a farm. Yes. Right. And we’re not on the farm. He knows he sees a picture of her. She is not in a farm at all. But number two, the laughter tells me, he also knows this is a ridiculous
Samson Q2U Microphone: answer. Yeah. Yeah. So
Tinita: that tells me so much. So if I were assessing him in a regular way, he would get that mark wrong.
Yeah. Right. But in dynamic assessment, I stop, I pause, I ask more questions. Hey, Alan, why did you say rooster? And he says, because a rooster wakes you up. That’s a good answer. Can you think of something else that might wake you up? What do you like in the, in when you’re in your room? And then he couldn’t, he was silent.
I said, you know what, Alan, how do you wake up in the morning? He said, My mom comes in and wakes me up. Hello. The target answer for that question was alarm clock. He does not have an alarm clock. Yeah, he does not use an alarm clock. So the test would [00:28:00] have penalized him for a life experience he did not have.
All right, dynamic assessment helps me to mark that completely correct. The point of this question was to see if you understand how you wake up. Give me an appropriate answer. Not the test target answer. But an appropriate answer, and that’s how I was able to give him using dynamic assessment. So just a small example of how our kiddos can definitely be penalized, um, just for not having certain life experiences or a knowledge or backgrounds.
Um, so one thing I’ll say, though, is a lot of parents, because it’s not often used, they get afraid, right? Because with dynamic assessment, you’re not getting standardized scores, right? And I know parents love sti so do clinicians, they love standardized scores. We can put you on a chart number, map you out, know where you fall.
Um, but I think we underestimate The power and not being able to easily put you in a spot, but better get a [00:29:00] grasp of what skills you have. Isn’t that the point? The point is to be able to tease out what your strengths are and where your growth points are so that I can target the right things. In the right timing in your time with me in your school career, um, and dynamic assessment without having standardized scores, but giving some kind of score.
Usually it’s a raw score to help parents. I know we love numbers. I do always give numbers, um, but helping parents get. comfortable with hearing more about their child and the quality of their knowledge and learning as opposed to being content with just seeing cold numbers that may not connect in any way to that child and how they can better access that curriculum at school.
Samson Q2U Microphone: Oh my gosh, I love that so much. And I didn’t even know that that was out there. And, you know, I’m not a speech therapist, but still, I should have been like seeing that when I was practicing, uh, in the schools and oh my gosh, it’s not.
Tinita: Look, I [00:30:00] said I wasn’t going to say this, but I’m going to have to just put it out there. One thing I do want to encourage all the parents out there of kiddos, particularly from culturally and linguistically diverse backgrounds, please, Try your hardest to encourage your speech pathologist not to use the CELF, the Clinical Evaluation of Language Fundamentals, any addition, in a standardized way.
So do not use that in a standardized way. Use it in a non standardized way, which means to use it in a dynamic fashion.
You know, clinicians not horrible for you.
No, um, this
Samson Q2U Microphone: assessment is so common, like on almost everyone. So yes,
Tinita: everyone. Yeah. They’ve they’ve done. They’ve certainly incorporated some individuals who are diverse, but just not enough to have to be a fair assessment for your kiddo if they are diverse, right, culturally or linguistically.
I had a student who was assessed with it [00:31:00] and I literally thought I was like this, let me call the SLP even because this certainly is not the same student.
Um, and then I had to call mom and mom shared. She did not agree at all with the findings. She didn’t sound like her child. And I had to completely reassess that student. Right, complete, not just go in and try to tease some things out, completely toss it in the trash and like start from scratch because it just did not match that student in any way, shape or form and I could not meet that student’s needs.
So, um.
Samson Q2U Microphone: Okay. So, so I know that there’s going to be parents in their head right now saying, okay, so I’m not supposed to have the self, but what are the names of some of these dynamic assessments or where do I go to find a list or
Tinita: something? That’s a great question. That’s a great question. There is no list, right?
It simply relies on the clinician to understand how to use that [00:32:00] standardized tool in a non standardized way.
So you not only can have the self and use the self, right? It’s great to be used in a dynamic way, so the SLP is not just administering those questions and then scoring it. They are using that test, administering those questions and making adaptations. So I have an article out called Incorporating Dynamic Assessment to Avoid Standardized Test Pitfalls.
This, it’s on ASHA’s Leader Live. It gives you. Um, I’m going to show you how you can take that any SLP can take to take that standardized self assessment and use it in a way that will help you to really tease out their skills and kind of areas. I’ll give you one example of how to do that.
So if there was a question, let’s say it was on the self, there is one on the self actually, and the question is asking define giraffe for me. And the student has to give two very specific [00:33:00] definitions or two specific piece of information and their answer to get full credit.
So one of those is, uh, I believe spotted and tall. And the second has to be like lives in Africa or something like that. Okay. Now, if your child does not give you that second answer, If you’re not using dynamic assessment, you will just mark it wrong. But using that tool dynamically, you would simply say, is there anything else?
Do you happen to know where the giraffe lives? And if they give that to you, then you can credit that as correct. Things like that. And then if they say, do. If they say zoo, and it’s not listed on the cell, you still give credit because that’s an appropriate answer. Yes.
Samson Q2U Microphone: Okay. Awesome. Oh my gosh. I could talk to you for forever.
This is amazing. Okay. So, so we’ve already alluded to this, so I don’t know, um, if we want to go through it again or not, or maybe we can do a short example, but, I was going to have you kind of walk through an example of how that evaluation and especially like the dynamic results of that [00:34:00] evaluation impacts the goals, accommodations, and
Tinita: services.
Absolutely. So the, the way the results that you get, they are so detailed. I mean, when I am writing a report, of course, I’m having to put in there that there are no standardized scores able to be used from this. But what I give you is for every question that I had to, um, alter or change or ask for information, I list that.
So you get a really clear picture of your child’s thought process. And that’s invaluable to any clinician, right? So I use all that data. So all that taken together, what more do I need? Right? I use all that to say, okay, here in the area of articulation, I’m looking at their performance on this articulation assessment, as well as the language sample, what mom is saying she’s seeing at home with dad or grandma, whoever, and I’m seeing, okay, There’s a trend here.
We’re definitely going to need to work [00:35:00] on these particular speech sounds, not just because the test says you erred on it because you could have made an error on that test. And in talking to me, I made the error at all. Right. That tells me important information. Um, and so I use all of that to really think critically, you know, it is not the most popular practice I would venture to say, because it’s not the easiest route.
Yeah, it’s just not. It really requires you to be number one, a team player and involve others in your assessment process. Um, and as a clinician from that standpoint, and it also forces you to really put that thinking cap on and see not just what makes sense for what a test tells me, but what’s the most functional thing to work on for this student.
So for example, I had a student, um, who has autism and, uh, His testing was off the charts. It would tell you nothing, right? You could give a paramedic language assessment, [00:36:00] social skill assessment, um, and he was Fine, but then observing him in the classroom with his peers, he’s constantly saying things that are kind of rude that he does not see as rude at all, injecting a bit too much and getting on the teacher’s nerves without meaning to at all.
That piece right there, that’s where I can help. If I’m just looking at what the test said, not talking to mom and not talking to teacher, I’m never going to figure out. He really could use some help with the nuances of interacting with his peers and adults socially. Mm hmm.
Samson Q2U Microphone: That’s you have somebody where, man, my child has a ton of needs and it’s across all of these different things, you know, going in and looking at them in the classroom and like, what is bugging them?
What is the biggest barrier in their way of participation? Because it’s really hard to prioritize those things sometimes too, if it’s, if the reverse is true too. And it’s like, oh my gosh, they have so many needs. I don’t know what to, what to prioritize. That’s when [00:37:00] you go in and you. Ask them questions or, you know, you see them in the classroom too.
Oh,
Tinita: absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And you mentioned a great thing too. The one thing that really, um, is another sign that, you know, not enough critical thinking may have. Enter the situation is 1001 goals. Please, as a parent, you know, it’s just not functional to allow your student’s IEP to be jam packed. It’s a natural, I’m a parent also, it’s a natural inclination, of course, want your child to have all the help they can get.
Um, but when I see IEPs that have like, you know, speech and language. Eight goals. That’s just not realistic. I’m not getting through eight goals in a school year. The point of every goal in your child’s IEP is to be achievable in that one school year. Okay. So even if your district does like long term goals with short term goals, that long term goal should be achievable in that one school [00:38:00] year.
And to achieve that, we’re not going to get through eight, you know, thousand goals and objectives. Three or four is like the most and those should be the most pressing as you mentioned, Matt, that most functional ones that you start with for sure. And then as a team, you decide that it’s not just my job as an SLP, it’s a team decision for sure.
Yeah.
Samson Q2U Microphone: I think we need to build an extra big soapbox because it seems like we both have the same soapbox and we just need to share that soapbox together. Maybe. Oh my gosh. I could talk to you for hours, but I do think we have to wrap up for today. Um, so thank you so much for coming on and, and talking about this dynamic assessment because I, I don’t really feel like I knew what it was before you started talking about it.
So thank you so much for teaching me as well. Um, if parents would like to connect with you and possibly work with you, where should they go to do that? They can
Tinita: go to my website, tanitakerney. com, that’s T [00:39:00] I N I T A K E A R N E Y. com, or follow me on Instagram, drtslp, so it’s D R, period, T, underscore, S L P, and you can catch up with me in those two
Samson Q2U Microphone: places.
Perfect, sounds good. I’ll have those Below this podcast in the description. And then I’ll also put in the show notes too. So people can just click and follow you. So perfect. Thank you so much. I so appreciate you.
Tinita: No, I appreciate you too. Bye. Bye.
MacBook Pro Microphone: I hope you so enjoyed my interview with Dr. T and make sure to follow her. The links to see her website and to connect with her on Instagram are below this episode in your podcast player and also in the show notes. So check those out as well. Also, just a final reminder to please register for the webinar that is happening this Friday.
You do not want to miss it. We are going through three major questions to make sure that your child’s IEP or 504 is working correctly to support them and where to [00:40:00] identify your priorities for advocacy moving forward. So please click the link in the description or go to theieplab.
com slash free F R E E to sign up and register. We’ll see you on Friday and of course see you back here, same time, same place next week. Thanks so much.