E121: Gifted (2e or Twice Exceptional) with Dr. Matt Zakreski
Some of the most brilliant minds also need adaptations to the ways our public schools are set up to address learning differences. This week, Dr. Matt Zakreski helps peal back the layers of how advocating for giften/2e aka twice exceptional learners can be best tackled.
Some of the most brilliant minds also need adaptations to the ways our public schools are set up to address learning differences. This week, Dr. Matt Zakreski helps peal back the layers of how advocating for giften/2e aka twice exceptional learners can be best tackled.
In this episode we cover:
1) What gifted or 2e qualifications are
2) The range of programs and what they look like inside schools
3) Myths (such as “but they are so smart, why are they having behaviors?)
4) Resources for gifted advocacy
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E121: Gifted (2e or Twice Exceptional) with Dr. Matt Zakreski
[00:00:00] If you have ever been told that your child is gifted and that they’re super smart. But you also know that they need support for things like organizing themselves. And we’re accessing the classroom and other ways, then we are going to be debunking a lot of myths when it comes to the combination of a gifted child
that also qualifies for an IEP. We have special guest Matt here, and I’m so excited to be able to learn from him and pick his brain. So if this sounds like your child, that they are smart yet, still need supports to access the classroom. Then you definitely want to stick around for this episode.
You are listening to the parent IEP lab, the podcast that helps you get an effective IEP for your child so that you can get them supported and learning in school. I’m Beth LEAs and Feld occupational therapist, who started to notice trends in parents who got effective IEP for their kids without having to fight the school.
My mission is to help you learn the pillars of knowledge that I saw these effective parents use in their advocacy, and also to provide insider knowledge from the school side, so that you have context to turn that [00:01:00] into a informed, intelligent questions that actually get used somewhere with the IEP team.
So let’s dive into today’s topic of gifted education are two E twice exceptional, and think about what we can change and tweak to get the right formula for success for your child to learn and grow and access at school. Welcome to the lab.
It can be pretty lonely out there as a parent advocate and relying on advice from other parents. You don’t really know and random professionals that haven’t been vetted by anyone can be a bit scary and this parent advocacy thing, it’s not just the time around the IEP meeting that you need support.
That’s why we’re introducing the parent advocacy club or pack for short.
Which is our newest way to support you as the parent advocate. And just for the month of April, you get a full 30 day free trial and a chance to lock in founding member pricing for just $14 a month after your free trial, you get a monthly on-demand training on the theme of the month. And the theme for April is emotions and advocacy, a live Q [00:02:00] and a with me where I answer any and all of your advocacy questions.
Apparent processing session with parent advocate herself, chiller Crossley, plus two additional templates or tools throughout the month that you can use right away to help you process through the theme of the month and use to progress your advocacy skills right away, plus a private forum where you can connect with other parent advocates and ask questions in between support calls. So check out the link below this podcast in your podcast player, or go to www.theieplab.com/club C L U B to sign up and snag your 30 day trial only available in the month of April.
And now let’s get into the episode.
Beth: I am so excited to have Dr. Matt here to talk to us a little bit about two E or twice exceptional kiddos. Welcome to the podcast. I’m so excited you’re here. Do you wanna just start us off by giving us a little bit of an introduction to you and what you do, and then we’ll
Matt: dive in. Oh, right on. Uh, yes. And it’s [00:03:00] so much fun to be here too.
I’m a clinical psychologist and speaker and advocate, and if I ever get around to finishing my book, I’ll be an author. I’m working on that. Um, but, um, you know, I often describe myself as a grown up gifted. So I was identified gifted in second grade, and then later, uh, in my educational career, sophomore year in high school, I was, was diagnosed with A D H D, which is where I learned the term twice.
Exceptional. Yeah. I talked to myself, well, gosh, I wish I had known that earlier. Um, fast forward many more years now I’ve built a career out of serving kids because to me it. You know, the idea of being the adult you wish you had when you were a kid is, is a very powerful reason to get into this kind of work.
Beth: Oh, that rings so true. So tell us a little bit about what you do. Are you a consultant? Do you work for schools? tell us a little bit about what context you’re coming from.
Matt: Yeah, so probably the, the biggest part of my week is seeing clients. I see [00:04:00] about 30 therapy clients a week. Um, thank to the wonderful CPAC law.
I can see kids from all over the country now, which is. Such a blessing. Um mm-hmm. And. Um, and then, you know, when in those other hours, you know, um, you know, oftentimes it’s a little consulting, it’s talking to schools like how do you streamline your gifted programming? How do you find your social emotional learning?
Like how do you do these things better? Uh, cuz I mean, there’s so much out there, right? There’s so much noise. So try and like, go to best practices and then, uh, and then I attend at least one i e p meeting a week, which is how you got on my radar. Because. You know, it, it amazes me how little training.
Even as a psychologist, we got in that, and then obviously the parents are going into these blind. Yes. Most often not. They don’t know the rules, they don’t know the law, you know, and they’ve got this big room of people in suits who are staring at them on the other side of the coffee table, like, [00:05:00] Hmm. Right.
So I’ve found that even having me there tilts the balance just a little bit back. Mm-hmm. And towards there, um, because I do know my stuff and I’ve made it a point to learn the other parts of my stuff so I can show up there as an advocate, as an ally and say like, I’m not gonna let you bully my client.
I’m not gonna let you, you know, play dirty pool here. And, and, and like this sounds a lot more dramatic than, I mean it to the vast majority of play fair. The vast majority, one do well by kids, but sometimes schools don’t even know what the resources and schools are. Right. So, yes. You know, sometimes they’ll say like, actually what?
What you’re saying is a common misconception, these resources exist and I can just point you at them. And once again, 99% of the time, The, everyone at the table’s like, that’s awesome. Thank you for telling me that. Because you know, nobody gets into this work to not serve kids. So if I can help you do that a little bit better, then heck, then I’m pretty happy about it.
Yeah, and I
Beth: [00:06:00] totally agree with that. And you’ll see my ignorance about this topic, like pop up in the next questions that I ask you and I know that things are different between school to school. So yes, like this is why we have guests on this podcast because there is no way that I know everything, of course.
And so that’s why I’m excited you’re here. So I would love to start with talking about the term two E or Choice, exceptional. Can you tell the US what this actually is and if you can add on. From a parent advocacy perspective, why is advocating for a kiddo who is two E so much more complicated than maybe even just a regular i e P case would
Matt: be, oh goodness, yes.
Like, let’s do that. So to define two E, we need to start with what is giftedness, right? Mm-hmm. So, Gifted is traditionally identified as an IQ of one 30 or higher. Okay. Um, and you know, there every district has different rules on that. You know, there are some districts that it’s like, if you don’t have a one 30, I won’t talk to you.[00:07:00]
Some districts are like, you got a 1 28, let’s have a conversation. Right. So, but one of the things, you know, a nice concrete thing to walk away with as a parent is, The one 30 IQ or higher doesn’t have to be the full scale iq. It doesn’t have to be your overall. I’ve seen kids who have one 50 IQs in verbal stuff and one and normal regular scores in the other things.
That kid is gifted in verbal. Mm-hmm. Right. So it should give meaningful accommodations there, even if they don’t meet the, the whole program. Giant air quotes. Right. You know, so that’s the thing. Like a gifted, a kid can be gifted in one thing or many things. Mm-hmm. We take that giftedness and then we add in this other thing.
A learning difference. A learning challenge. Um, and giftedness has a seat at the table for broader neuro divergence. Right. The gifted brain is a different brain. When we add in another exceptionality. The brain [00:08:00] becomes mu much more neuro divergent. Right. It’s much, much more different. So common twice exceptionalities would include a d h, adhd, autism, uh, dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyscalculia, AP apraxia is a big one.
You know, and, and certainly if we went through the list that suck up all of our time, but those are the big so what we have is a brain that has high highs, low lows, and it challenges all of us, the mental health professionals, the parents, the kid, the teachers, the administrators to meet this kid where they are understanding that where they are is in 19 different places, which is what makes it challenging.
Beth: Yes, exactly. And I, I have one parent in the prep course right now, and we’ve talked about it and, and she’s saying the school just comes back and we don’t understand. She’s so smart. Why can’t she just snap out of her behaviors? Or why can’t she just fix it? Or like we talk to her and have a very intelligent conversation with her, and then she goes and [00:09:00] does the same thing again.
And so it’s, it’s very confusing to people. People don’t understand it, and that definitely adds to the advocacy perspective. Um, can you clarify one thing for me, and this is where my ignorance comes you know, we have a 5 0 4, which is like a, a legal document for accommodations. We have an I e P, which is, you know, a whole legal document and system for people with identified disabilities.
Is there any official documentation for a gifted program?
Matt: Great question, and, and it’s not ignorant because this stuff is, is fairly niche, right? It’s, it’s not well represented and we’re doing our best there. Um, it depends on what state you live in, right? So, um, I did my training in practice in Pennsylvania.
Pennsylvania is one of the states where you can get a gifted i e p or g i p. And they exist in a, I believe it’s a dozen states right now. Um, New Jersey, where I live now, we are moving in that direction. We have passed some [00:10:00] legislation and we are hopefully to pass the next legislation. Um, because the idea here is that gifted education is special education.
We, as an American society, we tend to think of special education on the lower side of the IQ spectrum, right? Mm-hmm. You know, and then think about like some accommodations. Meaningful curricular changes, systemic curricular change. Take that and just flip it, right? So meaningful curricular changes, but for a kid who’s nine years old who can do calculus, that’s a meaningful curricular change, right?
We’re not saying like, well, here’s some more addition problems, Johnny. It’s like, Johnny, here’s a co-sign. Figure it out. It’s like, yay. So it’s right. It’s, it’s a tier three special education intervention just on the other side of the IQ spectrum. So, So if we don’t have a specialized G I E P, the language of IEP still can accommodate and be meaningful applied to gifted.
Beth: Okay. [00:11:00] That is so incredibly helpful. So it depends on what state they’re in Yeah. As to like how official it is. And I think, you know, is it true that parents will kind of shop around to see if certain schools have gifted programs? Like is it true that some schools do it, quote unquote better than other other schools do
Matt: what?
Uh, I’m, I’m shocked by this. Yes. Um, You know, I mean, once again, depending on the state, but every state is required to have gifted programming. And so that’s gonna look different in every school and every school district. Um, some districts do it at the district wide level. Like it’s like, okay, Thursdays all the gifted kids go to this building at this time.
Some places make it more nested to their schools. It’s, it’s different everywhere. And the idea here is, When you’re looking at a school, when you’re looking for that [00:12:00] district calling the special education department and asking those questions, what does your gifted program look like? Is it pullout? Are we pulling kids outta classes?
Is it push in where you’re having a teacher come in and, and, and ad enrichment, is it a, a separate track program where a lot of school, we’re seeing more schools do this because it’s not like you’re gifted all the time, right? You’re gifted in gym and and, and English and math and writing, da da da da on the line.
So you’re seeing more programs that will have a school that’s like we are gifted all day. From the minute you walk in the mo door to when you leave after, after extracurriculars. It’s all built through the lens of serving gifted learners. Um, because it really is, it’s a whole, it’s a whole experience.
Um, so, you know, I mean, and there’s data to support every program. Um, I tend to lean, lean on the side of all gifted all. Because like I’m saying, you bring your brain with you wherever you go, you might, this won’t get as much as you can. Yeah. Um, but you, I mean, there are quality programs that are [00:13:00] one hour a week and they do a great job.
So it really is mm-hmm. What’s gonna meet, meet the needs of your family, your, your kids’ learning style and, and what’s realistic in the district you live in.
Beth: Fantastic. Um, so can we dive a little, a little bit deeper into this G I E P? Mm-hmm. What does it actually look like? So I’m guessing that like there’s still goals, there’s still services.
Yep. You know, and maybe you can even give us an example of a kiddo that you’ve worked with before. Very generically, of course. And kind of like what that i e p had in it as far as like accommodations, services, and also like the mixture of goals
Matt: in there. Yeah, so the, uh, an I e P for gifted kids, whether it’s G or typical.
Mm-hmm. Gonna have two major arms to it. Arm One is access to gifted programming. So is that [00:14:00] acceleration, is that enrichment? Is it, uh, in the school district I grew up in, once a month they brought us somewhere and we did a thing. Right. It was a project-based learning. We got to go do a museum or like, that was the gifted programming.
Like once a month we got on a bus. Once again, it’s better than nothing. And you know, it was, it was fun. Um, so whatever access pieces are to that, the other side of it is gonna be, and this is something I hope parents take away from this, this chat we’re having is most of the power of an i E P for gifted kids is going to take place in the reg regular education c.
And that’s a, it’s a common misconception. People are like, wait, hold on a second. Why is that? Because gifted learners learn quickly and they engage deeply, and they, they tend to want bigger chunks of things. The way that the American education system is built with a lot of redundancy and a lot of relatively [00:15:00] slow, right?
You’re teaching to the middle, right? That’s where most of the kids are, is you teach slowly and methodically. So a lot of times what I’m, what I end up advocating for is not Johnny gets to play with computers twice a week. It’s when Johnny’s in math class, if Johnny takes a test and gets a 93 on it, Johnny doesn’t have to do the rest of the lesson like Johnny’s done.
He can go to an independent project, he can move to the next unit. Right? Um, I have to, I tell the story of my, my gifted origin story once again. I was identified in second grade. They sent me home with a math work. And they said do pages one through four. So I brought the book home and I did pages one through four.
I was like, that was pretty easy, right? So I went and I just finished the book and I brought it back in on Monday and they sent me to the principal’s office because they’re like, I, you’re up to something. I’m like, no, I just, math. It’s not that hard. Right? Yeah. Um, and but then their response to that was to give me another math workbook.
I’m like, I [00:16:00] have shown you I can add and subtract and multiply. Why would you give me more of the stuff I’ve already shown you how to mm-hmm. That I can do? Yeah. Like, wouldn’t you logically move me to the next level? Um, you know, it bugged me even as a second grader and it bugs me now professionally. And so like a lot of our I E P stuff for gifted kids is gonna be to use a common intervention pre-test, post-test.
Mm-hmm. Your Sally is in US history. They’re doing a lesson on World War ii, Sally, if she takes a pre-test, she gets higher than 85. She doesn’t have to take the, she doesn’t have to take the lesson. She can take that time and use it for an independent project. Mm-hmm. Coding with a, you know, a preferred activity.
Okay. Because she’s demonstrated mastery. If Sally gets say, an 80, then we’re going to post-test her, having taught her the stuff she needs to. So, okay. Sally knows all of the battles, but she doesn’t know the, the leaders of [00:17:00] the countries. So we’re gonna make sure, you know, Roosevelt, Stalin, Mussolini, et cetera, down the line.
Then we post-test Sally. Sally gets a 97. Great. Now we know most kids don’t learn that way. Most kids are like World War ii. Was that the one with the Nazis? Right? So they’re starting at zero or one. But our gifted learners are at 91, 92, 93. Mm-hmm. When the, when the lesson starts. So giving kids the option to, to move through things faster or skip it entirely based on their knowledge, is a way to document education and mastery.
Right. We need documentation, but also. Moving things at a way that fits the gifted pace, right? Because it’s, you know, that’s how we serve both sides of this.
Beth: Okay. That makes total sense. And then, you know, I’m guessing the rest of it is just like, you know, a typical, like looking at the whole child, okay, you have a d h D, you have dyslexia, you okay.
Like, what do [00:18:00] we need? What are the gaps here? Like, how can we support you? How can we present things differently? You know, the accommodations and support. For that. Right. Definitely. Okay. And then one last question about this. Who would be the case manager then?
Matt: Ooh, that’s a gr. That is a great question, and I feel like I’ve been saying this a lot, but in every district it’s different.
Okay. If your district has a gifted coordinator, Uhhuh, I would very much encourage you to have that person be the case manager. Okay. If that’s, Um, and here in New Jersey, that is often the case, right? Okay. We will have the district or the school’s gifted coordinator take the lead on this case because the giftedness is gonna be driving.
The style of education, the accommodations that we’re using, much more so than somebody’s A D H D or dyslexia per se. Right.
Beth: I, I love that what you just said about the style of the accommodations, because I was just thinking about [00:19:00] how I would teach accommodations differently to somebody who was gifted versus not, is I would explain a lot more to them, right?
Mm-hmm. And the why behind it. Yeah, just like talk to them. I mean, I always talk to everybody like they’re a human being and they can understand me, but it would change the approach a little bit. So I love that you said that, that that would change the style of it. That’s great. Okay. And then if they don’t have a gifted coordinator, then a special education teacher, or Yeah.
Who do you think, okay.
Matt: Special education teacher and you know, I mean, I have found that, There are that sometimes even school psychologists will step into that role. Mm-hmm. Because they have the testing background and they’ll say, You know? Yeah. I mean, this kid’s full scale IQ is X and their general abilities index is y Here’s what those numbers mean.
Here’s what that’s gonna look like in the actual classroom. So they may take more of a leadership case, managery role. [00:20:00] Because I mean, st just sta statistically speaking, there aren’t as many of these kids, right? Yeah. I mean, we’re talking about the top 2% of kids.
I mean that’s like really, so there aren’t that many of us. Mm-hmm. Um, so, you know, you could handle, you know, half dozen or so if you don’t mind. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Beth: Awesome. So circling back a little bit and really talking about some specific strategies that parents can take away, you know, if they are having this situation where, you know, they have a gifted kid, Maybe they’re identified, maybe they’re not, but they keep getting this like message from general education teachers with frustration because they’re like, I don’t understand why they can’t just do this or why they’re having behaviors, because, you know, they, they can do everything.
They might be bored, you know, whatever the, the situation is. Or, you know, administrators who are generally in charge of discipline are having this report of a lot of behaviors and they don’t understand, neurodiversity sometimes. What would you say to a parent? Just general [00:21:00] recommendations of trying to advocate for your kid.
Like what should they do if they’re getting this kind of pushback?
Matt: Right. So I mean, and these are exactly the questions we need to be asking, right? So if your kid is being assessed for A D H D learning differences, autism, anxiety, you know, make sure an IQ test is a part of. Right. I mean, that is, it’s just, it, it, it blows my mind how often the kid will go to be assessed for autism and they’re like, yep, we did the autism, we did the MGAs, or we did, you know, the, uh, autism spectrum questionnaire.
And I’m like, okay, what are the IQ scores? They’re like, oh, we didn’t do that. Because there is still this perception that I I, that h ADHD kids and autistic kids are dumb. They’re not good learners intelligence giftedness exists all across the psychological spectrum, right? So you know, if you don’t have it [00:22:00] now we can go back and ask for it.
That is a right, you have as a parent, and your child deserves to have that knowledge because the more we know about a kid’s learning style, their strengths and weaknesses, the better. We’re gonna accommodate and adapt what we’re doing in school. So always ask for an IQ test. That’s thing one. Thing two. Common misconceptions, myths, mm-hmm.
Around learners, one of which is they’ll be fine and Sure. Right. But, you know, just think about it this way. Right. Um, so Beth, you know, you are a very smart person. You’re very intelligent. Um, let me ask you this. Do you know the alpha. Yes. Right. So if I asked you to say the alphabet right now, could you do it?
Yes. Excellent. So let’s just pretend for argument’s sake you did. Now I’m gonna ask you to say the alphabet again. Could you do that for me? Sure. Great. And now I’m gonna ask you to do it again.
Beth: Now I’m gonna get, I’m gonna question why [00:23:00] you’re asking me to do
Matt: that. There we go. And your face changed, right?
Mm-hmm. I mean, it was like, like, oh, like, oh, like this guy, he’s my guest. He’s asking me to do the alphabet. Like, where did we find this guy? Right? Um, but like, that’s the thing, imagine whatever the thing is, if you’re out there listening to this, imagine something you’re good at. Basketball, baking, running the guitar.
Imagine that we, we insisted on teaching you the basics for a long time at a very slow rate. That’s why the alphabet test, which is Jim Dellys thing, I, I can’t take credit for it. Um, but the idea here is that asking somebody to do something, they can. That is easy for them. Disengages the learner. Mm-hmm.
Right. So what we’re looking for here is an optimal level of engagement, what I like to call the leading edge of learning. We want kids at the right level. Understanding that that level is probably beyond what they’re supposed to be learning right now. You know, if you’re sitting there in [00:24:00] class learning, hop on pop, but at home you’re reading Percy Jackson, I wanna teach that kid Percy Jackson.
I don’t want to teach that kid hop on pop, right? Mm-hmm. Because what teach what, and I, I’ve heard this from administrators, from fancy well endowed private schools to underfunded public schools and everything in between. It’s like, well, would a kid wanna do a thing that’s. Like, oh my gosh, if I had to sit through a lesson on World War II and I had New World War ii, I would be thrilled.
Like, but, but you say that, but you wouldn’t actually. Mm-hmm. Because not just guilty. Nobody likes to sit through stuff they already know. Yeah. Right. Hard to maintain your engagement in that. So these broader systems, the, the, the reason we advocate for gifted and twice exceptional learners. Is to give them the mechanisms to move thing through things quickly, right?
Mm-hmm. So we’re not bogging them down. And what you’re gonna see is the more engaged a kid is, the less behaviors they have, right? [00:25:00] I cannot tell you how many times, like, well, we can’t let Sally into the gifted program because she has behaviors. And I’m like, you give that kid one month in the gifted program, those behaviors are gonna go.
Right. I’m like, yeah, it it, you’re thinking about the intervention backwards, right? Yeah. You want the kid to stop acting up in class. They’re acting up in class cuz they’re bored, they’re underwhelmed, they people are te treating them like they’re less smart than they are. Put that kid along among intellectual peers, give them a meaningful challenge.
Now they have to pay attention. Now they have to ask questions, right? Mm-hmm. You know, I mean, growing up they let me doodle on every piece of paper that wasn’t stapled to the wall because. Otherwise I would’ve been a behavior problem. Right. But I just filled pages on pages, on pages with doodles, and then the teacher would be like, okay, well you know, Mr.
Zakreski, you haven’t been paying attention. You know, what is this? I’m like, Ugh, the capital of Mississippi is Jackson. Back to doodling, right? Like, yeah. Cause I knew, right. I was, I was [00:26:00] listening. Yeah. Right. But it’s, you know, you have to accommodate those things, right. Because once again, gifted education is special education.
If we wouldn’t Yeah. Ask a kid who uses a seeing eye dog to just not use the seeing eye dog. Mm-hmm. But you can figure it out. Right. You know, I mean, it’s like, no.
Beth: Yeah, and just the reverse of that too. If you have a kid who. Is struggling in class and it’s the content is over their head and they’re very frustrated.
You’ll see behaviors. So does that mean that they don’t need an I E P? They don’t get an I eep if they have behaviors. Actually the IEP should, the I E P should decrease behaviors cuz you’re actually giving them the support they need. So yeah, absolutely. Same thing just flipped. I love it. It sounds like parents educating the school team, which happens a lot. And I hate to put that on parents, but it, it is, it’s a thing. Um, is there anything else to tell parents about how to advocate?
Any [00:27:00] tips, tips or tricks that you have? Other than those two things?
Matt: So this is a. And you know, one of my things that I say all the time is that if you wanna go fast, go alone. If you wanna go far, go together. So one of the things you do, and you’re already doing this a little bit by listening to this podcast, is you are understanding that there are questions and resources and knowledge that is outside of you.
So this is when I empower you. Reach out to one of the organizations that does this professionally. So every state has a gifted organization. You know, some are more robust than others, but you know, that’s a place to start. And if you are, you know, so if you’re in, let’s just say Ohio. Ohio has a great gifted state gifted organization.
You talk to the Ohio Association for Gifted Children and O A G C, I think that’s them. They will say, great. What part of the state are you in? Okay, here’s who we have in that area. Here are the providers we [00:28:00] recommend. And if we can’t get you someone, then we will train you up to have that conversation with the Toledo School district.
Right. So I would not expect anyone to know all this stuff themselves. Mm-hmm. Because I have a literal doctorate and I’ve been doing this for over a decade and I still don’t know everything. So yeah. How could I expect you to know all those things? So building your team, getting your community. Talking to other parents who have fought these fights and talking to advocates, someone to, you know, to hold the heavy hammer.
Right. A lot of times I go to me is, I’m like, listen, you have to maintain a relationship at this school. Mm-hmm. Yes. I can come here and be the jerk. Right. I’m the one who can like pound on the table and ask for stuff and be demanding because I don’t have to see them at the PTA meeting in two weeks. Yeah.
Right. They’re like, oh, this guy in his suit. I’m like, That guy in his suit, but I’m gonna get this kid what they deserve. Yeah. Um, so start with your state organization, you know, [00:29:00] tap into those resources. There are two national organizations, the National Association for Gifted Children, and supporting the emotional needs of the gifted.
Those, once again, national organizations, they’re gonna plug you into more stuff there. And there are increasing organizations that. Focusing on two E learners. Mm-hmm. Um, so you mean these things are out there, so if these terms are new to you, which for many people they are. Right. This is another thing I say all the time, but it’s like the best time to start was 10 years ago.
The second best of time to start is right now. Mm-hmm. If you’re like, I, I’ve written down like a thousand things they’ve talked about. Great. Welcome to the team. You know, we’re happy to have you, you can start today asking those questions, sending those emails. Because it’s a lot to do on your own, and this is a time where it’s totally appropriate to tap into the expertise of a specialist.
Of an expert and you know, so feel free to reach out to me if you need a price to start, because I’m [00:30:00] happy to direct you to whoever that might be in your neck of the woods.
Beth: Fantastic. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for educating me and of course sharing this with all of our parents listening too. I know that there’s gonna be some parents who wanna reach out to you either with questions or to possibly work with you.
So where would they go to do that?
Matt: Yeah, so, um, we have a pretty robust Facebook community. Um, uh, facebook.com/matsu, kresge’s id, um, And, um, the name of my clinical practice is the Neurodiversity Collective, which is a huge mouthful. Um, but that’s what we do, right? We are a collective of professionals who support neurodivergent kids all over the spectrum.
So we are here to do that. Uh, we’ve, I mean, we, I’m blessed to have a really fabulous team around me. Um, so, you know, so it’s the neurodiversity collective.com. Mm-hmm. Um, but really if you just punch Matt Zakreski into. A lot of stuff comes up because I do a lot of podcasts and [00:31:00] talks and, and, and I love my job.
So it, that means those parts are very easy.
Beth: Okay, perfect. Thank you so much. So yeah, we’ll link those up in the show notes so people can find, especially the, the spelling of your back, of your last name. Um, and just thank you again so much for coming on. It’s been really, really enlightening for me and I’m sure parents are gonna love it as well.
So thank you so much for your,
Matt: It was my great pleasure and like I said, I am here to help, so I, if you walk outta here with a little bit more information, then, then I’ve done my job. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you so much for listening to that conversation. And hopefully you learned just as much about gifted as I did. I know all of that information was new to me. And so hopefully that helps you advocate a little bit better. Don’t forget that if you have more questions about anything that we talked about in the podcast.
The you’re more than welcome to join the Facebook group, introduce yourself and ask any questions or help for anything inside of that group. The link to join is below this podcast.
And don’t forget about [00:32:00] signing up for the parent advocacy club. We’re so excited to kick that off
with our topic of the month. Emotions and advocacy this month. So you will get a 30 day trial if you sign up any time in the month of April. And I can’t wait to see you in there. Then you so much for listening and I’ll see you. Same time, same place next week. Thanks so much.