What About "Specials" and IEPs?! With Bryson Tarbet
Your child's day at school likly includes some "specials" (aka music, PE, art, etc!). So what is the inside scoop on if your child needs accommodations in these specials classroom? In this episode we cover: 1) What "specials" teachers include 2) What the "specials" teachers experience is with encountering accommodations in 504's and IEPs.
Your child’s day at school likly includes some “specials” (aka music, PE, art, etc!). So what is the inside scoop on if your child needs accommodations in these specials classroom?
In this episode we cover:
1) What “specials” teachers include
2) What the “specials” teachers experience is with encountering accommodations in 504’s and IEPs.
3) How parents can shortcut systems that prevent specials teachers to have a copy of the IEP
4) Approach to inclusion in specials classrooms
5) Bryson’s trial and error process and why he thinks some teachers are hesitant to use it
6) Specials teachers and paraprofessionals relationship
Download your Free IEP Process Step-By-Step Guide
Need more help with Accommodations? Check out The Accommodations Mini-Course for Parents!
Connect with Bryson on Instagram
Bryson Tarbet is a PreK-6th grade general music teacher just outside of Columbus, Ohio. He received his Bachelor’s of Music in Music Education from Ohio Wesleyan University his Master of Music in Music Education with a Kodály emphasis from Capital University.
Bryson spent his first year out of college as part of an elementary school intervention team and he fell in love with working with students with disabilities. Due to this experience, as well as his personal experience as a neurodiverse individual, Bryson feels very strongly about advocating for sensory and emotionally-inclusive classrooms.
Bryson started That Music Teacher, LLC with the goal of sharing different perspectives on issues pertaining to the lives of music educators across the country. He also hosts That Music Podcast, a podcast for elementary music teachers and is the educator behind the Elementary Music Summit.
More information about Bryson and That Music Teacher can be found at www.ThatMusicTeacher.com. Bryson can also be found on Instagram and Facebook @ThatMusicTeacher.
E114: What about “Specials” with Music Teacher Bryson Tarbet
[00:00:00]
Over the last couple of years, I’ve heard parents say, oh, my child really has a hard time in music, or they really have a hard time in PE. And so today we are diving into the experiences of specials teachers, which means those extra enrichment activities that your child has throughout the day. And if your child is in middle school or high school, just replace the word specials.
With the word electives and you have a very similar experience for those middle and high school teachers in specials as well. I’m so excited to invite Bryce and target on who is a music teacher, so that we can talk about the difficulties and what you can do as the parent to help your child access those accommodations in specialist classes better. So stick with me. We’re talking about specialist teachers today.
You are listening to the parent IEP lab, the podcast that helps you get an effective IEP plan for your child so that you can get them supported and learning in school. I’m Beth Lindenfeld occupational therapist, who started to notice trends in parents who got [00:01:00] effective IEP for their kids without having to fight the school.
My mission is to help you learn the pillars of knowledge. I saw these effective parents using their advocacy and also to provide insight or knowledge from the school side, so that you have context to turn that into informed, intelligent questions that it actually get you somewhere with the school IEP team. So let’s dive into today’s interview and think about what we can change and tweak to get the right formula for success for your child to learn and grow at school. Welcome to the lab.
Beth: I am so excited to have Bryson here from that music teacher. I am just thrilled to have somebody who has a special education background, but also is what we call a specialist teacher, and I’ll get into defining that as well. So, Bryson, welcome to the podcast. Can we just start with you introducing yourself and your experience?
Bryson: Of course. Thank you so much for having me. I’m really excited for this conversation. It’s definitely one of those hills that I will be glad to die in, which I’m sure we’re gonna get into at some point. Yes. [00:02:00] Um, so my name is Bryon Tart. I am a, um, elementary music teacher here in Columbus, Ohio. Um, like you said, additionally, I also, um, run an online business called that Music Teacher.
Um, and I actually, my spent my first year out of undergrad working in, um, a few different roles supporting students with disabilities outside of the music classroom. Was kind of my first taste into that world, and I’ve, uh, instantly fell in love with it and have really taken that experience and made it my, my mission to really make sure that my classroom and the classrooms of the teachers that I coach, that truly are accessible and that we’re removing barriers that have nothing to do with actually what we’re teaching so that when we say music is for everyone, we actually.
Yeah.
Beth: I love that. And I love when we were chatting that you mentioned you were a social education aid and I was like, oh my gosh, this is just amazing because I feel like, um, I mean we’ll talk about general education teachers cause of course you’re that, but also [00:03:00] like this term specials teachers. Can we first define that before I go any further with that term?
Bryson: Yeah, so typically that, that term is like referring to, art teachers, PE teachers, music teachers. Depending on the school, you might have something different. Uh, potentially libraries kind of thrown in there depending on where you’re at. Um, but the, the overall general, it, it’s kind of like the related arts.
The integrated arts, again, there’s the bajillion names for it, but that’s kind of, kind of the vibe we’re going. .
Beth: Yeah, I love that. Okay, so general education teachers, I feel like they’re invited to i e P meetings. , most of the time they have a really good relationship with each kid. You know, they might have a ton of kids in their classroom, meaning like, you know, 25, 30 kids, but then specialist teachers, you guys essentially have the whole.
Just not on a particular day . So you can definitely get out of the i e P loop. So can you just talk about your experience with IEPs and especially with accommodations and what that’s looked like for
Bryson: [00:04:00] you? Yeah, so you bring up a really good point that a lot of us, you know, music teachers, other specialist teachers, we, we have a lot of students and that kind of brings its own.
Set of, of troubles and, and difficulties. Um, something that, that I, I fully am aware of is I’m not the typical music teacher. You know, I love kind of getting outta my classroom and forcing my way into getting information that I’m, that, you know, might not necessarily be given my way anyway. Um, I make it my, um, My mission to make sure that I am truly following the 5 0 4 s in the IEPs in my classroom.
Because one, it’s the law, and two, it’s just the right thing for us to do as teachers. Um, and I’m not gonna say that that isn’t hard, especially with so many students remembering their, their accommodations and, you know, it can be a real struggle and that’s. Definitely a systemic problem. Um, but what str, what stresses me out most about, you know, the teachers that I coach, um, is the amount of times that [00:05:00] they’ve been told that they are not allowed to access the ip.
It baffles my mind. Because that’s just not true . Yeah. Not only, not only are we required to have it, we’re legally required to follow those accommodations we are in. We are responsible for creating the instruction in that environment. So we are in responsible for following those plans and the amount of administrators who are telling certified teachers.
This is, it’s really disheartening. You know, I myself am, you know, I have adhd, sensory depress disorder. I was a little bit of a mess in elementary school because I wasn’t necessarily getting those accommodations that I even, then probably didn’t even know I needed. So when I look around and I see these kids, you know, with or without IEPs, and I’m seeing these accommodations that, you know, They’re able to actually allow them to access the curriculum.
And if we’re, if we’re setting our teachers up for failure, we’re also setting our students up for failure if they don’t have access to the i E P information that [00:06:00] they need. Mm-hmm. .
Beth: Yeah, exactly. And I, I feel like, gosh, do you ever feel like you are left out? Of the loop, like I just feel like even as an ot, I had a good relationship with like the classroom teacher and the special education teacher, and I would forget to walk down the other hallway to get to know my specialist teachers.
What is, what is your experience with just feeling like you’re left out?
Bryson: I, I will say that because of my background and, you know, kind of my own experience as a Neurodiverse person, I really do make it my mission. And sometimes , I’m sure I annoy people trying to get information. . Um, you know, when I first started I was getting paper copies of the I E P at glances.
Um, so when those would get out of date, you know, they. I maybe had to get a new one. Maybe I, they’d forget or, you know, obviously the ISS are doing so much, so, you know, I really shouldn’t be on them to print something out. Uh, thankfully now, um, I kind of advocated for myself and for my students and I, I now have digital access to those IEPs, um, [00:07:00] which is so much easier.
Um, also so much more secure. Yes. Um, but , but that’s kind of one of those things where I really make sure that I. Have what I need. Uh, when it comes to being in the process of the IEPs, um, one of my goals this year is by the end of the year, I wanna sit in on an IEP meeting. I’ve never been to an IEP meeting.
Oh my gosh. I’ve, I mean, I’ve, I’ve submitted information to, you know, I’ve signed IEPs, you know, as, as someone who was, put stuff into it, you know, like just observational things and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. , but I’ve never gone through the process and I’m, I’m sure it’s not this big old, you know, super dramatic thing all the time.
But I think that it’s important for teachers to. have that understanding of just what’s going on behind the scenes. Um, you know, cuz all the ti a lot of times we’re getting this piece of paper and we’re like, well how do we get this? Why does, why does this, the accommodation that was given? And I think that in, in, in general in education, allowing teachers to have more context in why things are happening in the way they are [00:08:00] happening, it’s going to help us as teachers, which again helps our students be success.
Beth: Oh my gosh. You said so many things in there that I wanna unpack with you. And the first one is, we talk a lot about having accommodations, which are the ways that the classroom or the environment or the task has changed, to create access for that student. And the first thing that you said was, , oh, I get this list of accommodations sometimes.
Right? When you’re lucky you get that like cheat sheet at the beginning of the year that has like kind of the summary of the accommodations and you said that sometimes you can’t understand what accommodations are on there or why they’re on there. And one of the things that we talk about is that parents should also understand specifically what that accommodation is.
So if that accommodation is preferential seating, Like, okay. Does that mean at the back of the room so that they can paste in the back of the room or does that mean like right in front so they focus on the [00:09:00] teacher? Like, what is that? And I love that you bring that context because you’re not at the i e P meeting a lot.
So how would you know what preferential seating means? So like, that just brings up a core thing that I talk about all the time, which I love. Um, Yeah, just sitting through an I E P meeting and having that context that you might not know what happened in that I e P meeting
So you, you had another great point that I wanna bring up too, which is if the principals are giving teachers pushback and not, not allowing them to have a copy of the I E P, I just wanna point out that parents can. Divulge or can share whatever information they would like. So have you ever contacted a parent to get more information or is there a way that a parent can contact you or any specialist teacher to give them information?
Like how does that relationship look
Bryson: for you? Well, I have had a parent before. Um, at the, my teaching situation, I’m at two schools, [00:10:00] one which feeds the other. So I had a parent who I’ve had for years.
Um, but she sent this to all the, the new teachers coming in and basically it was this 5 0 4 and some things about her kid and things like that. , a way that’s like, Hey, you know, you have this information, here’s how to be successful.
But on a point to kind of keep us accountable too, which I think some, which needs to happen sometimes it’s like, Hey, you can’t claim deniability. You have this, you know, we’re good to go. Um, but yeah, typically when I, if I weren’t to have the information, I would definitely be reaching out to the intervention specialist.
Um, but if, if it needed to, then I would definitely be reaching. I
Beth: love that. Yeah. And I have seen some parents like make up a little cheat sheet on their kid with a picture and kind of the accommodations, just like what you’re talking, talking about, and go ahead and give it to their teachers. And I think that’s a great shortcut.
Like if there’s any drama or because we know schools are full drama, um, or any like politics or things like that. I just want parents to remember that like, It’s their information, like parents can share it if they want to. Right. for sure. Yeah. Um, so I’d love to look at [00:11:00] some of your things that you’ve learned along the way in having your classroom be inclusive.
So, you know, in my OT brain, I’m thinking about a lot of sensory accommodations as. As we talk about like your music classroom, but I want you to just talk about what is your process for kind of figuring out what accommodations would work for a kid and how can you make your classroom more inclusive?
What are the things that you’ve found works?
Bryson: So you bring up a really good point with the sensory stuff because I mean, A music room is a loud place. There can be a lot going on. It could be really easy to get overstimulated. Um, so one of the first things that I did was make sure that I have over the ear headphones for really any student that wants it.
Um, they don’t need to have it as an accommodation. This, that, the other thing I, they say, Hey, if it’s too loud, You know, I have headphones. You have plenty. I mean, me, myself, like I said, I have sensory processing disorder. So I wear earplugs, um, special earplugs during the day that I just kind of tone it down a little bit.
Mm-hmm. . Um, but when it comes to really making my classroom more accessible, it [00:12:00] comes down to more just removing barriers. You know, how can we make sure that we’re, I’m not making students sit on the risers all day. I mean, in my classroom it’s literally my desk. And then a big old empty room.
Yeah, because we, we’re moving from space to space, so we’re not in the same place for one, for many areas. And what I like about it is, I think the biggest thing that we can do when it comes. Applying any types of accommodations, whether it be differentiation required by an IEP or not, is just look at how you’re structuring your lesson and look at the students that are in them and make sure that those are compatible.
You know, if you have a bunch of kindergartners who love to move, you can’t have them sit for 20 minutes to read a story. That’s just not gonna be helpful for anyone. And. You know, I know we’re, we’re talking a lot about IEPs here, but I think what I like about the more I learn about how the I E P process works and how bio applying accommodations is, a lot of this information is just really good tenets of teaching.
I mean, you brought up a really good point earlier that can be really frustrating is, you know, how do [00:13:00] we as specialists take the accommodations that are listed and apply them to our situation? For instance, you know, like one I see a lot is preferential seating. Like I said, I don’t have seats. We’re moving.
What does that mean? Do I, do they need to be closest to me? Do they need to be far away? What does that really mean? And a lot of that comes from knowing the kid as well, um, and kind of trying to get to the root of, well, why do they have that as an accommodation like we’ve talked about. So a lot of it just comes down from getting to know the kids, getting to know how we can be set up.
Success. And honestly, and this is something we don’t talk about enough in education, trying something and seeing if it works. If it does, awesome. If it doesn’t, alright, let’s move on. And you know, a lot of times, especially when I’m, when I. Talk to my students that I, or the teachers that I coach, they’re like, well, what if I mess up?
What if I do something? And it’s, it’s, you know, it comes from a place of me trying to do right and it just isn’t. And I think that so often we get worried about trying something new and [00:14:00] it failing that we just. Go with the status quo, and that’s just not the best for our students, and we need to be ready to try something new so that we can truly, again, remove those barriers so that our students can be successful in our classroom, even if that means we fail a couple times before we figure it out.
Beth: I love that you say that because that’s what the name of my business is, the i e p lab, because I, I do feel like it is, you know, trying to get to know the child first, which you said, and then it’s just, okay, well I think they’re trying to do this, so what if we try this for a little bit? Um, I couldn’t like that comment more.
Thank you for saying that. I love that . Of course. I also wanted to ask you, because I know that a ton of like more significant programs have a lot of paraprofessionals or aides or parapros, whatever they’re called in your district that come along to children on IEPs to specials.
So they will come to the music [00:15:00] classroom, they’ll come to pe, they’ll come to computers or whatever their special is. Um, can you talk a little bit about the relationship that you might have with a paraprofessional who comes into your specialist
Bryson: classroom? Of course. First, I wanna say that these aids some are oftentimes the hero of the story that nobody talks about, um, agreed
Um, but what I, one thing that I realized when I was working as an aide is that oftentimes we’re just kind of thrown in and we’re like, I, okay. I’m, I know how to help the student. I know how to support the student, but I have no idea what’s going on in the class right now because you’re in this different environment that isn’t, all right, we’re working on ela, or we’re working on task boxes or this, that and the other thing.
So one thing that I do with my age is I give them clear things of how I think they would, could best support it. And sometimes they say, no, this isn’t gonna work, because sometimes they know the kids better. Mm-hmm. . But I, but I think allow, it really is a collabo. It really is us working together to make that classroom accessible.
It’s not me teaching my lesson and them them differentiating. That’s just [00:16:00] not how that works. And I think that making sure that there’s. Cooperation and collaboration and communication can really make that role a seamless integration. And it’s not just an extra body, it’s ju, it’s, it’s really an extra support that is specifically for that student and they’ve been given specific task about what to do.
Beth: Yeah, I love that. And I, I was a paraprofessional before I was an OT as well, and I think I totally agree with you that they are, gosh, they just like fly under the radar. Like we don’t realize how skilled they become and how much they know those individual kids and. Like what you’re saying, I’ve seen paraprofessionals light up when they, when you mention a general education teacher or a specialist education teacher, that they get along with really well.
Because what ends up happening is they end up collaborating, just like what you’re saying. And then that’s just like super, super special and it just benefits everybody and especially that kid to access. [00:17:00] Oh, I just love that. I love that . Um, before we wrap up, is there anything else that you wanna talk about that we didn’t hit on?
Bryson: I guess just kind of zooming out a little bit and realizing that whether a student has an I e P or not, whether they’re on a 5 0 4, whether they have any sort of formal diagnosis, there should be communication between all the stakeholders on how to allow students to be successful.
You know, the parents and the teachers should be collaborating, you know, age appropriate wise. The students should be a part of that conversation too. Mm-hmm. , you know, and we, we, I think that, I mean, I’m not gonna lie and say there isn’t a systemic issue that CR inherently creates an us versus them mentality.
Yeah. But the majority of teachers and parents are on the same page. Sometimes we’re just jumping through different hoops to get the student or to get the child the access to the, the curriculum that they deserve. And that is, What they need to be successful [00:18:00] and, and I think that if we can realize that even though we might disagree, we might have different ways of approaching things, coming at it from a place of assumed positive intent and collaboration and just being open to each other, that is really where we’re gonna best serve our student.
Beth: Yeah, and I think that exactly also goes back to, you know, those other teachers that you’re coaching with, they’re scared to make mistakes. Well, all of a sudden, if you have a relationship with the parent and you know that the parent wants you to try stuff, that they understand that things might not go right a hundred percent of the time, but you’re trying, like that makes the whole situation just so much less stressful for everybody involved.
Bryson: Right. For sure. I just, this past year was working on my master’s thesis and for the action research I took two of, um, or three of my students that, um, That are on IEPs, and I know these parents, we’ve, we’ve had pretty decent relationships and I said, Hey, you know, this is totally optional, but I would love to be able to use redacted [00:19:00] information, you know, about your student in a ob observational research study.
And it was so cool. You know, I was a, be able to really dive into their e ei, their full IEPs. I mean, I, I went far deep. I went dove into their etrs and I’m just like, how can I make these this, how can I apply what I’ve been working on in my master’s and in my research? To allow these students to be successful and to try different things, and that’s what it was.
It was trying and failing and then trying again, and maybe we’re more successful, and then maybe you find something that works and then the next day it doesn’t work again. , it’s just, yes, being ready. It’s, I, I think when, from the teaching side of it, it’s filling up our toolbox so that when something stops working, we can try something new without having to completely reinvent the.
Beth: Absolutely. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for coming onto the show and sharing your experience. You mentioned it at the beginning, but I do think it’s worth noting that you are an anomaly. I feel like you are a person who really wants to get this right and really interested in the whole I e P thing.
[00:20:00] So thank you so much for coming on and just kind of shining a light. And also for any teachers that are listening, This is what you can do. You can seek out more information and kind of, um, hunt down that information that you need to create those opportunities for your kids too. So I am sure that some parents would love to connect with you, and I’m sure if there’s educators that are listening, they would love to connect you with you as well.
Um, so if they wanted to do that and perhaps work with you, where would they go to do.
Bryson: There are definitely a couple places that are kind of where I hang out most of the time. Instagram at that music teacher is where I spend most of my time online. Uh, you can find out more about me and my [email protected].
Um, I really appreciate being a part of this conversation. You know, while, while I do acknowledge that I am an anomaly, what I’ve, what I’ve learned in my coaching is that the want is there. It’s sometimes it’s the system that gets in the way. Yeah. I think, I think we’re moving in the right direction in places, and I, I, I look forward to seeing how this continues to shift to really making accessible classrooms [00:21:00] regardless of the subject you teach.
Beth: I love it. Yes, I agree that I think we’re shifting in the right direction and it’s slower than we probably all want it to, but the change is there and I love the opportunities that you’re creating both on both sides for parents and for teachers who are coming to you for help as well. So thank you so much for coming on.
I really appreciate
Bryson: your time. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah.
I hoped you got so much context from Bryson talking about his own experience and the experiences of the teachers that he coaches. And also, I just hope that you got some really great insight into these teachers that teach specials, everybody that I have particularly worked with just really care about their kids. And so I really want you to feel comfortable reaching out to them and making sure that they know about the accommodations and why those in combinations are in place, right.
So that they can understand the context of why they’re providing them. And because these classrooms are so [00:22:00] different from the general education classroom. Which by the way is a great thing, right?
We want to make sure that they understand the intention behind the accommodation so that they can come up with some of their own accommodations for some of their own specialist classes. So that your child can actually access what they’re doing. Right. I just was so inspired by Bryson. I love talking to him. I hope you connect with him as well.
Um, switching gears just a little bit. If you need more help with accommodations for your child, don’t forget to check out the accommodations mini course for parents. The link to join and find out more information is below this podcast in your podcast player. And we also have a link. For the IEP process step-by-step guide. So don’t forget if you have an IEP coming up that you will benefit from downloading that freebie, that tells you the 10 steps of an IEP meeting coming up and also when to share your parent input within that process. So you actually feel heard at your IEP meeting as well.
So thank you so much for listening this week, and don’t forget to rate and review this podcast. If [00:23:00] you have found it helpful, this allows the podcast to be shown to other people who will likely benefit from it as. Well, and so I thank you from the bottom of my heart for rating and reviewing the podcast. And of course, maybe sharing it with a friend as well. Thank you so much for tuning in and I’ll see you. Same time, same place next week. Thanks so much.