E149: Processing Advocacy Emotions with Denise Kleinman
Are you tired of everyone talking about self-care and how important it is to be level-headed when advocating... ...but needing help in having some tools to actually DO that?
E149: Processing Advocacy Emotions with Denise
Are you tired of everyone talking about self-care and how important it is to be level-headed when advocating…
…but needing help in having some tools to actually DO that? It’s so much harder to put into practice.
Today, Denise Kleinman is helping to introduce an actual tool you can use to process your advocacy emotions to have them stop getting in the way of effective advocacy.
Topics we address on this episode:
1) Why advocating is so emotional
2) How using tools (similar to tapping) help you advocate with more clairity
3) A real-time tapping example that directly relates to school meeting stress!
New to the podcast? Download free tools at https://TheIEPLab.com/freeresources
Shownotes: https://TheIEPLab.com/episode149
Connect with Denise and have a fee tapping experience: https://tapintuition.com/fatigue
Samson Q2U Microphone: [00:00:00] I’m going to be honest. I’ve actually interviewed somebody else about the topic that we have today and I did not publish it because I don’t think I’ve ever told you this, but I am fiercely protective of what I put on the podcast in case it doesn’t land well or it’s actually not helpful and more judgmental than helpful.
Samson Q2U Microphone: And this particular topic can get a little woo woo and I wanted to make sure that I wasn’t there while still being super helpful. So today on the podcast, if you are struggling with having really overwhelming emotions, if you have trauma reactions from IEP or 504 or any school meeting either in your own past or while advocating for your child,
Samson Q2U Microphone: and you need an actionable tool that you can take and be able to process your emotions so that you can actually advocate with clarity, then this is the episode today. Because today we have Denise Kleinman from Tapping Intuition, and she is the parent advocate [00:01:00] herself.
Samson Q2U Microphone: So this interview is going to be so helpful, but I do want to give you a little bit of a warning that we are going to talk about some strong emotions. She’s giving us a hands on demonstration with a very relevant example. So if you’re around kids and you don’t want them to necessarily hear,
Samson Q2U Microphone: then you might want to stick in your earphones or listen to it a different time, but you definitely wanted to come back to it because it’s going to be super helpful. So stick with us because we are talking about an actionable tool to get you through emotions and advocacy.
Samson Q2U Microphone-1: You are listening to The Parent IEP Lab, the podcast that helps you become an informed parent advocate to get your child supported and learning in school. I’m Beth Liesenfeld, occupational therapist, passionate about leveling the school support information playing field for parent advocates using my experience in over 504 meetings.
Samson Q2U Microphone-1: My mission of the Parent IEP Lab podcast and also the online courses, workshops, membership, and summit of the IEP Lab is to provide insider knowledge [00:02:00] of the school system so that you can formulate informed, thoughtful questions to fuel collaboration and see your advocacy actually get your child supported in school.
Samson Q2U Microphone-1: So let’s dive into this interview today and think about what we can change and tweak to get the right formula for success for your child to learn and grow at school. Welcome to the lab.
Samson Q2U Microphone-1: If you are new to the podcast and the IEP lab in general, then I just want to give you a very quick welcome and just let you know that there’s a lot of free resources available on my website. One of them is the accommodations 101 guide where you can introduce yourself to accommodations, know the difference between accommodations and modifications, and have a couple of examples about how they work.
Samson Q2U Microphone-1: You also can download IEP process step by step guide, which if your child has an IEP, is super helpful for knowing what comes next and when to share your parent information. So it actually gets inputted into the IEP. There’s also a podcast listening guide because, uh, we’re getting to almost a [00:03:00] hundred and fifty episodes of the show, and I’m sure that you are saying, oh my gosh, how do I find the episodes that most relate to where I am right now?
Samson Q2U Microphone-1: And that is on the listening guide. So if any of those things or more interests you then go ahead and head on to the ieplab. com free resources and that link is below this podcast in your podcast description and go ahead and download Everything that sounds like it would be helpful for you.
Samson Q2U Microphone-1: Okay, let’s get into the episode
Hello and welcome Denise. I’m so excited to have you on the podcast today. And before we jump in, I’m so excited to have you kind of jump into tapping and we’re going to talk a lot about emotions today. But before we get there, I really want to just start with having you introduce yourself, your business and your relationship to parent advocacy.
Sure. Well, thanks for having me. I’m glad to be here today. So I am a mom of three. My kids range from the age of 10 to 20 and my oldest, I’m going to kind of answer those questions in [00:04:00] reverse. Um, my oldest was, uh, diagnosed in second grade with, autism and So that started me on the IEP process. So I have, I bring 11 years of personal experience, dealing with, you know, the various schools that he attended.
So I’ve been involved in tapping for about three years. I was laid off from my last day job during the pandemic.
And to be honest, it was a blessing because I did have three kids in three schools at the time. So you can just imagine the amount of email I was getting. And so I had, I had found this tabbing thing, which I had honestly never heard of. And I wasn’t even in the wellness space. So this was a pivot for me and. But I was also ready for it. Like, it was something that had just crossed my Instagram feed, literally. And I signed up for this online course, and it was about wealth and abundance.
And I was tapping and just following along with the recordings, and I just would be, like, lying on my bathroom [00:05:00] floor, like, with, like, tears coming out. Like, I just was like, where is this coming from? And so it turned out that, you know, there were just a lot of things, a lot of unresolved emotions that I had been carrying forward, even though I was intellectually clued into, you know, things that had happened to me and my, my past and all of that, but there was this element of resolution that I hadn’t really completed.
And so I was so amazed at the results that I was getting, but I thought, okay, well, this is what I’m going to do. And so I got certified in clinically of T tapping in August of 22. And I’ve been doing coaching ever since. Awesome. And, and who are the people that you work with? Who’s your, your, your GM? Like, what kind of things do you like to address with them?
So to be honest, I’ve really focused on parents of neurodivergent kids because I feel like this is a group with an extra burden. I mean, all parenting is hard, but this kind of parenting is next [00:06:00] level and to to be able to enjoy your kids and enjoy your life and feel okay about the world.
You, it’s really, really important that you take care of yourself. And that’s not something that I really figured out for a while. So I, I made a lot of mistakes myself. Um, but I really do feel like this group of parents, if, if they can recognize the need for that support and that if they can make that connection to how it’s actually going to be maybe one of the better things that serves their kids rather than all the others, right?
You spend so much time like taking your kids to all of these different therapies and you know classes and everything else and then at the end of the day you’re like there’s nothing left for you. Yeah. And so beyond just like a typical sort of self care it’s really about how do I separate out my own stuff and my own needs from theirs.
How do I know what’s mine? How do I know what’s theirs? And so, I just think that, again, for this specific [00:07:00] population, it’s just a really, really critical need. So when I was thinking of naming my business, I wasn’t sure what to call it.
And I realized that the common thread In all of parenting is to listen to your own wisdom. And so there’s a lot of experts out there. There’s so much content online. It’s so easy to get pulled in this direction or that. And so really my goal is to help parents clear the noise in their heads. Clear the noise in our tech.
Just clear the noise, period. And really go inside and listen to their guts and learn to trust themselves. Because that’s just a big part of making good decisions for yourself and your kids. Beautiful. Yeah, I would agree. And I, I think from all of my coaching programs and especially the Parent Advocacy Club, the membership that I have, it’s like that emotion piece, especially related to advocacy, IEP 504 is trying to get them a plan [00:08:00] in the beginning is so incredibly emotional because it’s so personal and the teams on the other side sometimes just don’t
don’t get it. Um, and I, I think it’s probably the biggest barrier that I see in people just being able to think while they’re in these meetings to be able to advocate with success. So, um, yeah, whether you’re a parent of a neurodivergent person or medical mom or yeah, it’s, it’s all emotional. Right. So let’s, let’s chat about this a bit.
Why do you think it’s so hard? To manage emotions when we’re talking about advocating. Yeah, I think there’s a lot of reasons, and I mean, you just mentioned one of them, which is that we might not feel like the school is on our side, right? Um, and they might not, that might not be their intention, but they have a distance.
from the situation that, that you don’t have as a parent. And in my situation, I actually was kind of surprised by the [00:09:00] diagnosis. And so I was caught a little off guard. I mean, so there was like that whole thing, right? Sometimes the teacher is coming to you and saying there’s an issue and you’re like, there is, right?
So, so it’s, it, there’s an element of surprise. And, you know, the other thing is too, is that none of us, Well, most people don’t really like conflict, and lots of times these meetings feel a little bit combative. Yeah. And… And to be honest, you know, we’re literally like back in the principal’s office, right?
So it ties into all those fears that we had as kids, you know, all of the expectations and social pressure and of what it meant to listen to an authority figure, right? So you spend your whole life, or your childhood, at least, being told, listen to these people. And now all of a sudden, you’re like, wait a minute, um, I have some information here that You might not because I know my child the best from of anybody else.
You might be the expert in your field, but I’m the expert of my child. [00:10:00] And, but that’s a tough hurdle. That’s a tough hurdle to climb in the moment because we get caught in that deer in the headlights. Yes. We’re kind of caught in that freeze, that fight or freeze response. And, and then we feel like we miss our opportunity.
Mm hmm. Oh yeah, I see that a lot too. Oh my gosh, I should have said it this way. Oh my God. Yes, absolutely. We talk a lot about relationships and how to combat that, but I mean, even if you have, even if you’re working to make it better, it’s still like in the moment, you probably have some trauma from that for sure.
So, let’s pivot a little bit because I, you know, mental health, wellness, love it. And then there’s like this very practical part of me that’s like, oh my gosh, that’s a little bit woo woo for me. But I have had somebody do tapping with me before and I was like, this is cool. There’s some science behind it.
That’s why I’m so excited to have you on to explain this because like, like you said, hey, I’d never heard of this before. Um, I’ve heard about it [00:11:00] in the OT space because OT can get a little woo woo sometimes, which is awesome. And I have heard it about it before, but it wasn’t until I experienced it that I was like, Oh, this is really cool and hear it about the science.
Tell us a little bit about this tapping technique and how you see it being really helpful for parents as they’re saying, how is this going to help me kind of explain that a little bit. Absolutely. Well, it’s a great question. I’m glad you brought it up. And it’s something that I normally like to talk about right off the bat because you’re right.
It’s weird looking. I mean, you’re like tapping in your head. And I mean, I think it’s just to call it out to say it looks weird. And same thing, but the proof is in the pudding, right? And so that’s why I always say, well, give it a shot. Like, I never, I never thought this is what I was going to be spending my time doing, honestly.
But And I have a master’s degree, okay? Like, I am, I’m all about science. Um, although, to be honest, I didn’t care about the science initially. Like, to me, it was… Wow, this is, this is effective, and I’ll worry about that later, you know. Um, so what, what, what [00:12:00] I like about it is, or just to explain how it works essentially, you know, we are tapping on the acupuncture meridians.
So we’re tapping on the ends of the meridian. meridians, which, you know, science is proving, like, they’re able to find them, actually, you know, they’re able to find, like, these tiny little sort of filaments, and they’re calling it the primovascular system now, which sounds a little less woo woo, and, yes, it does, right, and it’s, it’s, it’s combining that with aspects of modern psychology, uh, primarily exposure therapy So, essentially, we are very gently exposing ourselves to our fears or whatever our traumas were.
And when I say trauma, I don’t necessarily mean big T trauma, right? I mean, like the little things that happen to all of us, like, which can create, um, a persistent stress response. And so that’s what happens. It’s literally about rewiring the brain. So we all have heard about neuroplasticity and how we can change the pathways in the brain.
And this is an actual physical way that that happens. Because what we’re [00:13:00] doing is When we’re tapping, we’re interrupting that communication mechanism with the the amygdala, which is the brain’s fire alarm. Mm-Hmm. . So you might be sitting in that IEP meeting and you’re getting sweaty because you’re remembering or might not, you might not be consciously thinking about it, but there was some other time in your life where you were in some situation and you felt really anxious.
And put on the spot. And so your body is responding to that by getting hot or sweaty or whatever your particular sort of anxious reaction is. And the amygdala is like fire, fire, fire, fire, right? And so what, what happens when we tap is that we’re literally have these little on off switches and just by tapping on those, we’re just helping to calm down the amygdala and say, it’s okay.
There’s no fire here. And so once we can do that, so, so what I love about EFT for parents is that first of all, it’s super easy to learn and it’s quick and doesn’t take any special equipment and you can even do it sort [00:14:00] of, you know, under the table and, you know, like, you don’t have to be super obvious about it.
And it can help, right? Obviously, when you’re by yourself, like, do the whole thing, but if you were in a public space and, you know, you were just going to, like, tap on your thumb, like, you could just kind of, like, tap on this little thing right here under the table and nobody would ever know, right? So, I think for all of those reasons, Parents, and what I find a lot of parents tell me is like, Oh, this is kind of like a talking meditation because we’re talking through whatever’s on our mind. And just by being our own witness to our experience, it’s almost like, you know, if you were going to tell a friend or a partner or something about your day, but instead you’re just, you’re just getting it out of your body.
So it’s really about. You know, if we, we don’t process our feelings in the moment, then they’re, they’re, they’re going to get stored in our body somewhere. Our body thinks it’s doing us a [00:15:00] favor when it’s really not, right? Yeah. Well, and, and the other thing that I really like about it is it’s, it’s rhythmic. That tapping is rhythmic. And going back to my experience of being a horseback riding instructor first, mostly for neuro neurodivergent people at the time, over 300 of them, there was something special about that rhythm of the horse.
That made everything just calm down a little bit. And I see that I’m like, Oh my gosh, horses are so expensive. Not everybody can access that. How else can we do rhythm? Well, we do a lot of rhythm music too, but there’s something about that tapping being rhythmic that makes total neurological sense to me to like, just calm everything down.
So I love that too. Okay, so, I know this is a podcast, and people can’t necessarily see you, um, but can we go through a little demo of Tapping? I would love to. Okay. So yeah, let’s go ahead and talk a little bit about prepping for an IEP meeting, or in a 504 meeting, or whatever the meeting is, [00:16:00] right? Before I get into that, one thing that I would say, just in terms of a strategy, when you’re in that situation, if you do find yourself freezing up, it’s totally okay to ask for a break.
Yeah, I never personally did that, I don’t, but now I’m thinking to myself, I should have just said, I need to step outside for a minute and think about this, because some of the pressure of these meetings is, Being asked to make a decision right there in that moment. Yeah. And they always seem so rushed, and somebody’s always late, and it just seems like you never get your full time, right?
Mm hmm. And so I just want to put that out there. Just to say, you know what? I, I need a minute, um, to just collect my thoughts, and, and I’ll be back in like a couple of minutes. So, again, super simple, but you have that right. To do that, you know, to not feel that pressure. So, okay. So what we do is we first kind of check in with our body.
So if we think about an upcoming meeting that we have where there’s, [00:17:00] there may potentially be some conflict or where we have to advocate. where do we feel that in our body? Like, do we feel a sense of fluttering in our stomach? Do we feel tension in our shoulders? Um, again, a sense of heat in the body.
It could be anything, but just ask you to kind of check in with that. And if you’re able to identify an emotion, then, you know, go ahead and do that as well. And then rate that feeling from 0 to 10. So 0 being not at all to 10 being, you know, the worst anxiety or, uh, headache or tension in the neck, whatever happens to be.
And just write that down if you can. It’s always good because we oftentimes forget. And then we’ll check back in, uh, afterwards to see how we’re doing. And then what we do is we start on the side of the hand. So if you hold your palm up vertically on the outside, like underneath your pinky. Yes. Right? So you take your other three or four fingers from the opposite hand and tap like the fleshy part of your hand under your [00:18:00] pinky. And repeat after, so basically I’m going to walk you through the points.
I’ll walk you through the points first and then, and then you would repeat after me. Okay, so that’s the first point. And then the second point is the very top of the head. And we, we tap on these points. There’s no like exact number, but you know, it’s more like how long, like several seconds, I would say.
And then the next point is the eyebrow point, which is where the eyebrow meets the nose, the side of the eye and the outside of the eye on the bone. Under the eye. I like that one. You like this one? Okay. Under the eye on the bone. Under the nose. I like this one too. Yes. You know, that’s interesting. So each point is sort of associated, you know, with different…
organs, according to acupuncture, and I don’t know all of them, but I know that this one is about feeling unsupported. Oh, interesting. [00:19:00] Alright, and then this is a really important one, too. The collarbone point is, if you, if you go to where your collarbone meets your sternum and you go down about an inch diagonally in, this is the fear point.
So if nothing else, This is always a great point, to use and you can just kind of rub it. Like if you’re, if you’re in a meeting or something, you know, you can just pretend you have like an itch or something. . I like that. And then the last point that we’ll use today is, um, under the arm. So it’s about four inches down from your armpit on the side.
For women, it’s pretty much where your brush trap is. Okay, so we’re going to go around all those points and I’ll prompt you. So, okay, so we’re on the side of the hand, and we go to the top of the head. Eyebrow point, side of the eye, under the eye, under the nose, chin, [00:20:00] collarbone, under the arm. Awesome. And so, you’ll guide us through that, like, in the beginning, and then when you drop off, we’re still moving points, but just holding it for a couple seconds and moving on, right?
Correct. Correct. Awesome. Okay, cool. Awesome. But going back to the start of the hand, repeat after me. Even though I have this meeting coming up. Even though I have this meeting coming up. And I’m feeling anxious about it. And I’m feeling anxious about it.
I accept myself and my body. I accept myself and my body. Even though this upcoming meeting is stressing me out. Even though this upcoming meeting is stressing me out. And I wish I didn’t have to do it. And I wish I didn’t have to do it. I love and accept myself anyway. I love and accept myself anyway, I deeply and completely accept myself.
I deeply and [00:21:00] completely accept myself regardless of the outcome of this meeting, regardless of the outcome of this meeting, top of the head. These meetings always stress me out. These meetings always stress me out. Eyebrow point, and now just tune into that part of the body, whatever that was for you. This anxiety, this fluttering in my stomach, this stress or tension in my body.
All right side of the eye. I accept myself with this tension. I accept myself with this tension. I thank my body for telling me that it’s there. I thank my body for telling me it’s there for letting me know that it’s scared, for letting me know that it’s scared. These meetings are difficult because these meetings are difficult.
I might feel outnumbered. I might feel outnumbered. I [00:22:00] might feel rushed. I might feel rushed. I might feel pressure to sign something I’m not ready to do. I might feel pressure to sign something I’m not able to do, or I might feel pressure to agree to something that I don’t understand, or I might feel pressure to agree to something I don’t understand.
There’s so much jargon. There’s so much jargon and it’s hard to stay on top of it, and it’s hard to stay on top of it. And legalese. And legalese. All these legal terms. All these legal terms, and sometimes I wonder if the teachers. And administrators are on my side. And sometimes I wonder if the teachers and administrators are on my side.
Sometimes they seem a little annoyed. Sometimes they seem a little annoyed. Like they wish they didn’t have to deal with me. Like they wish they didn’t have to deal with me. And that’s not really a good feeling. And that’s really not really a good feeling. [00:23:00] It’s like we’re asking who’s the expert here.
It’s like we’re asking who’s the expert here. Who knows what’s best for my child, who knows what’s best for my child, and they may have some information, and they may have some information, but I have some information too. But I have some information too because I’m the expert on my child, because I’m the expert on my child, because I have lived with them every day of their life because I have lived with them every day of their life.
And my input matters. And my input matters. My input is important. My input is important. My child deserves the best, and my child deserves the best. My child deserves all the services they’re entitled to, my child deserves all the services they’re entitled to. So as I think about this upcoming meeting, so as I think about this upcoming [00:24:00] meeting, I allow myself space, I allow myself space for these feelings to emerge, for these feelings to emerge, to acknowledge them and let them flow out of my body.
To acknowledge them and let them flow out of my body. To and to invite a sense of calm. And to invite a sense of calm. Knowing that I can take as much time as I need, Knowing that I can take as much time as I need, To make a decision, To make a decision, To ask questions, To ask questions, And to be fully informed, And to be fully informed, With the intention of having the best outcome for my child.
With the intention of having the best outcome for my child. So whether this meeting is tomorrow or in a week, so whether this meeting is tomorrow or in a week or in a month or in a month,[00:25:00]
I know that I will be ready. I know that I will be ready even if I freeze a little bit during the meeting, even if I freeze a little bit during the meeting. I offer myself compassion. I offer myself compassion knowing that no one is perfect, knowing that no one is perfect, knowing that everything takes a little practice, knowing that everything takes a little practice.
And that I can try this tapping thing and see if it helps. And knowing that I can try this tapping thing and see if it helps. Even though it’s a little weird. Even though it’s a little weird. Even though I don’t really know how it works. Even though I don’t really know how it works. And even though I don’t really know what I’m doing.
And even though I don’t know what I’m doing. Maybe it can make me feel better. Maybe it can make me feel better. So I’m willing to try it! So I’m willing to try it. [00:26:00] Because it certainly can’t hurt. Because it certainly can’t hurt. And maybe it’ll help calm my stress. Maybe it’ll help calm my stress. And that would certainly help me and my child.
And that would certainly help me and my child. Not only during school meetings. Not only during school meetings. But anytime I might be feeling triggered. But anytime I might be feeling triggered. Inviting any remaining feelings to flow out of my body. Inviting any remaining feelings to flow out of my body.
Inviting peace and calm. Inviting peace and calm. Okay, so go ahead and take a breath,
and then check in again with your body and whatever your issue was, your physical issue or your emotion, and just see if that number has shifted at all.
That, this is so cool because I’m not a parent advocate, right? So I’m an occupational therapist, but what kept coming up for me is the one time that we had a due [00:27:00] process complaint and we had lawyers in the meeting and the only person that had any significant results was me.
And so as we were going through it, I was like, okay, well, I’m not a parent advocate, but I’ll, I’ll go wrong with it and like, you know, see what happens. But I kept coming back. Back to that meeting that obviously was very stressful for me and processing through that. And that’s so interesting how it just like pops into your head this specific situation.
Absolutely. I mean, I think that’s one of the things about EFT that I find so incredible is just how quickly the subconscious mind awakens. And it really is a process of just trusting what it is that your subconscious or your body wants to tell you. And, and again, that is a little bit of getting past the woo woo.
But you do it a few times and you realize, wow, okay, there was, gosh, I remember that meeting and, and I’m sure that helped you. And so, yeah, hopefully that won’t come up again. Right? That’s so awesome. I just, I love that because I was like, Oh, you know, I’ll do it. But, you know, I haven’t had those, those [00:28:00] experiences of being the parent, but yeah, that was so interesting how that popped up for me.
Um, so thank you so much for coming onto the show and sharing this, this concrete tool. Cause I think so many times on podcasts and even in the summits that we do, it’s like this vague idea of what we’re trying to get to. But not the actual practical tools that will help us get there.
So I just, I love this so much. And I still think that you’re going to have so many parents comment on this and reach out to you. So I know that people are going to want to learn more about this from you. So where are listeners going to go to, to find. And more about you to work with you. And then I’ll have all of this linked up in the show notes as well.
Absolutely. So yeah, so the, so I’m actually currently working on a tapping for burnout course and the first module of that I’m calling the fatigue antidote. And so I would invite your listeners to go to tap intuition. com forward slash fatigue, and you can get the free download of that video, which does include a [00:29:00] 10 minute.
Live tap along. The best social media to reach me on is Instagram. So Instagram. com forward slash tap intuition. And then also of course, on my website, you can book a free call and we can talk about working together. And so that’s just tap intuition. com forward slash schedule. Perfect.
Thank you so much again for coming on the show. I enjoyed it so much and the results surprised me. So I’m so glad you came on. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Take care.
Samson Q2U Microphone-2: I hope you enjoyed this episode with Denise and thank you so much for Denise to come on and to do a live demonstration on the podcast. That was very, very cool. And make sure to use the link below this podcast in the description to connect with her. I have her free resource linked up below this in the show notes.
Samson Q2U Microphone-2: And also make sure that you check out the description below because we do have a link to the free resources page on the IEP lab. com as well. Thank you so much for tuning in this week Please if you have an extra second, which I know [00:30:00] is rare But if you wouldn’t mind giving this podcast a like and a review This helps this podcast get distributed to more parents just like you who might really benefit from these resources
Samson Q2U Microphone-2: so thank you so much and I’ll see you same time same place next week.