E112: How to Teach Kids to Self-Advocate for Accommodations with Megan Buck
How do you work with your kids to find the right accommodations for them?
How do you work with your kids to find the right accommodations for them? Megan Buck from Empower Academic Coaching, certified ADHD coach and former middle school classroom teacher, is here to share her process of empowering students to identify how their brain works and how to build skills in self advocacy!
In this episode we cover:
1) Why understanding how our brains work at an early age is so beneficial.
2) Changes in demands and expectations when transitioning into middle school or high school
3) 5 questions Megan asks at intake to discover where to start building on kids’ strengths and identifying what works for them
Check out the NEW Accommodations Mini-Course for Parents
Get your FREE IEP Process Step-By-Step Guide
E112: Problem Solving Accommodations
[00:00:00] I was coaching parent the other day one-on-one and we were talking about. We were trying to problem solve. What was so difficult about the day? What part of the day made it more difficult? And. We just, both came to this realization that the only person who really knows what’s going on.
Is our kid. That we’re working with. Right. So utilizing your child’s knowledge about themselves and empowering them to think about themselves and the accommodations that they might need or what their ideas are for solving their own problems is bringing imperative.
So, if you’re wondering how to teach your child, how to self-advocate. Then you definitely want to listen to this episode because I have Megan Buck from empower academic coaching. To tell us a little bit about her process. In teaching kids, how to advocate for their own accommodations. Stick with me.
You are listening to the parent IEP lab, the podcast that helps you get an effective [00:01:00] IEP plan for your child so that you can get them supported and learning in school. I’m Beth Liesenfeld, occupational therapist, who started to notice trends and parents who got effective IEP for their kids without having to fight the school.
My mission is to help you learn the
pillars of knowledge. I saw those effective parents using in their advocacy and also to provide insight or knowledge from the school side, so that you have context to turn that into informed, intelligent questions that actually get you somewhere with your school IEP team. So let’s dive into today’s interview and think about what we can change and tweak to get the right formula for success for your child to learn and grow in school.
Welcome to the lab.
Okay. I just have two little announcements before we get started. One is make sure that you grabbed your free IEP process step-by-step guide if you haven’t done. So already the link to grab that is in the podcast description below this episode in your podcast player. And it details out the 10 steps if you’re coming up to an annual IEP meeting and when to share your parent input within those 10 steps as well. So [00:02:00] don’t forget to grab that if you haven’t done that already.
The second thing is I didn’t even plan it this way, but Tim Kretchman from Action Driven Education and I have teamed up uh, to make the accommodations mini course for parents. And I’m so excited to announce that it is ready for you to go ahead and register. I’m so excited to bring this to you because we talk about why accommodations are such a huge thing, how they fit into the IEP as a whole, and also bring you through the process of how to select the right accommodations for your kid, and also how to get them implemented by your school IEP team as well.
So you can check out the accommodations mini course for parents at the link that is in the description below this podcast in your podcast player, or you can go to the IEP lab.com/accommodations to check out more information. Now let’s get into the interview.
Beth: I am so excited to have Megan from Empower Academic Coaching here [00:03:00] today. Um, before we dive into our topic, cuz I’m really excited about it, why don’t you just start by introducing yourself and what you do and we’ll go from there. .
Megan: Yeah, sure. Um, so I am a Neurodivergent academic coach and the a d h ADHD specialist at my company.
Um, and we support middle and high school students and their families with navigating any sort of executive dysfunction or learning strategies outside of school, just to help them reach a more peaceful place with their learning.
Beth: Yeah. And I’d love for you to kind of tell us a little bit about your story too, because you were a teacher before, right?
Can you talk about how you got into this? . Yeah, for sure.
Megan: So I was a middle school teacher for five years and I loved it, but I found that I really connected with any kids who had accommodations or who were on that, like i e P 5 0 4 type journey, and I really wanted to figure out how I could support them best.
And I found a position as an academic coach and focused primarily on working with those kids. And then through that process I was also certified [00:04:00] as an ADHD coach to really. Support the kids with d h, ADHD that I was bonding with so fully. Mm-hmm. . And then in that process found out I also had ADHD and was on the autism spectrum.
So it’s like a whole journey of self-discovery and really realizing like I was connecting with those kids for a reason.
Beth: So, yeah. Yeah. It’s so funny. Yeah. I’ve had other people on the podcast like that too, where I didn’t realize I had that and these were my people and then I didn’t realize it, and then I got diagnosed later.
So yeah, that makes total sense to me for sure. I love what you do because you are very much in like the problem solving space and like teaching kids how to problem solve for themselves. So we’re gonna talk a lot about accommodations today too. Um, but I think everybody listening likely knows how powerful it is for kids to learn how their brain works and what the strategies work for them and what ones don’t.
But I’d love to briefly talk about that, like how important that is for them to figure out well, and all of us really to figure out how our brain
Megan: works. . Yeah. I have seen such a [00:05:00] tremendous difference in the families and especially the kids that I work with. Once we kind of dive into understanding how our brains work
there’s just this feeling of empowerment that comes from saying, my brain works best when I get these things. Mm-hmm. . And that really helps them with self-advocacy, self-advocacy. All of these things have just kind of knowing, okay, my brain is different, but it can still do everything that everyone else can.
I just need different supports. Right. . Exploring that and understanding it is so meaningful and
Beth: so impactful. Uhhuh, , and definitely a lifelong skill, like you’re gonna use that for forever. Right. . Absolutely. Yeah. When, in your opinion, and I know you work from, with mostly like middle school and high school clients, and I’m wondering what your take is on this, of when do we start teaching and supporting kids to start building this like self-awareness and problem solving kind of thing to, to figure out that their brains are different.
Like when do you feel like it’s appropriate to start that process? , [00:06:00]
Megan: I would say as soon as you feel comfortable with guiding them through it. , I know that there can be a little bit of a learning curve, especially with the families that I’ve been working with, and an ability to step back and say, I want what’s best for my kid, but I wanna listen to what they have to say right now because they know their experience.
And there’s, it’s a process, right? So I mean, if you feel comfortable with trusting your kid at the age of five to say, this is my experie. . Then five is when you start, but if you, if you can kind of see that they’re struggling with understanding themselves a little bit. That’s why we start with middle schoolers, because they’ve got a little bit more development and they can fully communicate what they’re experiencing.
But I mean, as soon as you’re ready to have that conversation and trust them to know themselves. Mm-hmm. , that’s when you start. .
Beth: I love that. And it’s really interesting cuz I started the i e P lab thinking that I was gonna catch parents at the very beginning of their i e P journey. And when you, they were searching and trying to like figure out what, what [00:07:00] this all thing, what this whole thing is.
And I definitely have those parents and listeners to the podcast and people in my courses in the summit. But a lot of parents are coming to me in that middle school age because, A, the structure is different, right? So like in elementary school, it is set up to like help our kids. Have a structure. Each classroom has its own culture.
They’re not like switching between it and then this like shift to middle school where it’s like, oh my gosh, I have more than one teacher and I have to like ask for things. And people just assume that kids in middle school are like ready to step in and take more control of like their schedule and organization.
Do you wanna speak a little bit to maybe what you saw in the classroom of what kids. Really did well with this transition. And what struggles you saw in this transition to middle
Megan: school. Oh my gosh. Yeah. As you were talking I was like, not to mention the hormonal changes. Changes, yes. . So true. Yes.
Yeah. Um, I would [00:08:00] say the thing that I saw a lot of kids really blossom into is having that chance of independence and kind of gaining more trust from the adults around them. , uh, where I noticed kind of the flailing and struggle was really with, having people expect them to understand how to do it on their own.
And it’s not a natural progression to go from that elementary school structure to the middle school. Everything has now changed, so it’s like, how can we scaffold that change is really what we’re looking.
Beth: Yeah, I agree because I served middle schools as well, but there was a couple times where exactly this population, we would sit down at the middle school i e p meeting and this special education teacher would be like, you need to take more responsibility for your actions.
Like especially in like turning in home homework. And I was just sitting there thinking like, , they didn’t have to do this last year, like they weren’t expected to do any of this last year they had tons of reminders for like turning in homework and then I just felt like [00:09:00] it was such a harsh thing that middle school, oh, all of a sudden you’re in middle school.
Like your expectations are so different and most kids are okay with that. Like adapt to that fine. But I think that’s where these kinds of issues really show up is the middle school
Megan: yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of it and the best way to support it, I would say a lot of it comes from knowing what questions to ask.
Mm-hmm. and how to really support kind of giving them training wheels mm-hmm. for
Beth: this. Mm-hmm. . And I love that because my next question for you is to kind of have you run through your process of where do you even start in helping kids build this awareness of what works for them? And can you kind of take us through like your general process that you do with them?
Yeah.
Megan: So we kind of start in a goal setting mindset with our practice of saying, what do you like? Who are you right now? And who would you like to be at the end of the school year? How can we get you there? Right? So we start by building awareness, especially if they’re looking at organization [00:10:00] prioritization, whatever executive functioning skills we’re trying to build through their accommodations.
So I wrote down some questions that I specifically try to ask for this process. The first question, there’s five. Um, the first question is, tell me about a time where you felt most successful during your schoolwork. So we really wanna get an idea of what subject was it, what type of content, what type of work are we looking at, where we feel most successful, and how can we use those strengths on the things that you’re kind struggling with?
Oh, I love. . Yeah. Um, so the next one is, when you’re working in a group, what helps you feel most successful? Mm-hmm. , because if like individual work, we normally see kids with accommodations flourish when they’re just by themselves. Yeah. So it’s like when we’re looking at that group component, which groups feel safe for you?
Which groups feel successful, and how can we sort of use those skills moving forward? [00:11:00] Um, . And then the third one, when you’re working alone, what helps you feel most successful? Mm-hmm. , right? So it’s like kind of looking at the group and the individual level. This is also really helpful when we’re looking at those accommodations, like maybe they need more frequent check-ins in a group than
Beth: by themselves.
Mm-hmm. . Yeah, that makes sense. Uh,
Megan: yeah. Um, the fourth one is, which classrooms do you feel like you do your best work in and what’s happening there? It may be something that the teacher is providing as an accommodation that isn’t explicitly listed, or it may just be the classroom environment. Free seating, who knows?
Right? Yeah. And then, um, the last one is, which teachers help you feel most supported and successful, and can you describe what they do that helps.
Beth: That is amazing. And I love that you’re talking about that because I have heard, like, and I’ve never thought about this in the, in this way until I heard your questions, but
every middle school classroom is different. And so what a great environment to say, well, you’re in like seven or eight classes a day. Like, which [00:12:00] ones are working for you and which ones aren’t? And let’s try to define what’s working. That is amazing. Like what? What a cool process to like kind of process through their day and see and see what’s working for them.
And I have never heard anybody. Kind of break down the difference between independent work and work in a group. I’m, I’m wondering if you can give us a couple of examples with what comes out of these questions, like what might be working in one classroom versus another. Can we do a couple examples of that?
Megan: Yeah, for sure. So I tend to ask these questions, especially when the parents are like, Hey, we’ve got an IEP or a 5 0 4 meeting coming up, just to get some ideas of accommodations that the kids might have in mind that the teachers might not have thought of. Yeah, so what I’ve noticed a lot is that some kids will say, well, I do best in my art class because I get to take my notes how I want to.
And there’s normally some sort of like freeform. There’s not as much structure around. so they can draw their notes instead of writing me down. [00:13:00] Yeah, yeah. Um, I’ve got some, when it comes to like individual or group, uh, some of the accommodations will be, I need free seating when I’m in a group because I need to be able to move around cuz there’s like maybe a sensory overload happening.
Mm-hmm. . So they need some sort of way to move. Mm-hmm. , um, I’m trying to think. I’ve got one, like the accommodation originally was for the student to do the check-ins with the teachers. and we had to shift it because he did best when the teachers were doing the check-ins. Well go,
Beth: go figure.
Yeah. I see that a lot where like they’re expected to advocate for themselves without us teaching them how to advocate. And that’s really scary. That’s scary to like go up and look different because in middle school and high school, Typically kids don’t wanna look different by asking for things of the teacher.
Um, and that’s really scary and I, I just hate that, like those accommodations that are very vague, like when available or offer or them having to ask for their [00:14:00] own accommodations without us supporting that just drive me crazy. .
Megan: Yeah, I think that’s what I like the most about asking these types of exploratory questions to really understand what the.
kids are experiencing. Because it shows them, it’s like you’re not necessarily wrong or it’s not a bad different, it just is different. Yeah. And once you can put language to it, you can ask the teachers a little bit better and advocate in a way that feels safer, hopefully. .
Beth: Yeah. Well, and I, I was just talking to a parent last night in a coaching call actually, and we were talking about the difference between school and real life and how we have so much choice as adults with who we hang out with, with what type of job we go into.
Like if we need a remote job because we have sensory overload, then we can choose to do that. But how rigid the schools are in comparison and yes, of course, like you’re gonna have some coworkers that you have to work with that you don’t wanna work with, right? Like we all have those one-off situations.
But in [00:15:00] general, our lives are so much more flexible than the schools kind of lead us to believe in the beginning. Mm-hmm. . Um, and so those skills of like really knowing your brain, In middle school and high school before you even go to college or a trade program or like, whatever you’re gonna do, job right after school is so, so meaningful.
Um, so I’m wondering, you know, I can definitely see so many parents wanting your services going in and saying like, they just, they just don’t know what they need. Like, can you help us problem solve that? But at what. , do you have parents and kids who are like, I’m good, Megan, like we accomplished what we set out to do.
I feel awesome, we’re good to go. What is your endpoint for your services? What are you trying to get them to? Yeah.
Megan: Okay. So I would argue like. a coach’s job if they’re doing it accurately is to like coach themselves out of a job. Yeah. Like, I want you to like get the training wheels and then learn how to ride the bike on your own.
Mm-hmm. , [00:16:00] I have found the biggest pattern that we have with our kids is that once they graduate high school, they’re ready to take the training wheels off. Cool. Um, I have a lot of kids I’ve been working with since sixth grade and they’re now in 10th grade. , we really just meet as a safety net, as a precaution for them to say, Hey, I think this is what I need.
Help me workshop it. That kind of thing. But I mean, at what point are we done when they feel ready to fly on their own? Yeah. Right. Yeah. And some of them are ready after a year. Mm-hmm. , some of them. It just kind of depends. Yeah. And I think having like the services you provide too, of just like empowering the parents at the same point of.
if we have the whole family on board, it
Beth: really makes a difference. Yeah, for sure. And I’m sure the parents learn a ton from you as well. . That’s awesome. Okay. So thank you so much for coming on the show. I just love kind of diving into that process of helping [00:17:00] kids really realize what accommodations are working and which ones don’t.
Right? Because they also tell us that too. Um, if a parent is wanting to connect with you more, your social media is awesome. Like you have a ton of resources there. Um, and that’s originally how I found you. So if they are wanting to connect with you, work with. Find out more about your tutoring services, where would they go to do that?
Megan: Yeah, you can check out our Instagram at Empower Academic, um, and that’s got all of our links or our website, empower academic
Beth: coaching.com. Fantastic. Awesome. Thank you so much for coming in, sharing your expertise. Yeah, thank you.
I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Megan Buck
I’ve empowered, academic coaching.
My biggest takeaway that I had from her was the open-ended questions that she shared in her own process of knowing where to start, which I think is the hardest part when we’re trying to get our kids to talk to us and trying to really open them up and really figure out what’s working for them and what’s not. So I hope that you’re [00:18:00] able to either go to the show notes and look at the transcript and kind of look at those five questions that she shared. Or of course you can listen to them again and write them down as well.
And if you would like some more help with the combinations and knowing a framework of how to select them,
Go ahead and check out the brand spanking new. Accommodations mini course for parents that is now available. It is a collaboration between Tim Kretchman of action-driven education, who actually teaches accommodations to administrators and to special education teachers.
And he had the great idea to team up and bring a combinations mini course to you as parents. And just make sure that you’re on the same page and you have the access to the same information that special education teachers are getting and how to select good accommodations and how to problem solve if they’re not working as well. So definitely check out that course. There’s more information on the registration page and that is at the IEP lab.com/accommodations in the link to that is also
below this episode in your podcast [00:19:00] player as well. So thank you so much for listening and I will see you. Same time, same place next week. Thanks so much.